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05-16-2019, 05:54 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
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Last edited by erik_plus8; 05-16-2019 at 04:04 PM.
05-16-2019, 06:18 AM
#3
Instructor
Welcome to this forum Lecoultre. Some thoughts after reading your take on current affairs at Porsche. Your sentiment resonates with me, however I feel that some critisism goes beyond what Porsche can do or is.
A: Engines. Porsche has to move in a given direction that is not favourable to us petrolheads due to emissions regulations, so that we cannot blame them for.
The choices they make however, especially putting a 4 banger in the 718 is indeed one that does not sit well with me.
I'd rather (leaving the emission regulations up for another debate) have seen smaller turbo's or a very mild electric assistance on the base 911 block for the 718.
B: Pricing and product (special editions).
I think we can all agree that Porsche is stretching things quite a bit or perhaps as far as they can in this respect. However, if the market accepts it, fair play to Porsche.
Also, when taking a step back about the aspect of market; The income gap is rising all around the globe, so Porsche is simply moving along with the potential target group. Not something you can blame them for.
Whilst several of us will benefit from this pattern sitting somethere in the top of the food chain in terms of earnings, I do think this is an obscene pattern that does not benefit the advancement of humankind.
C: Design.
C1 Looks.
Agreed that Porsches are and have never been the most beautiful cars.
C2 Ergonomy.
Losing sight of nailing design from the ergonomic perspective is a sin Porsche should not allow.
Shame on porsche for indeed allowing the instrument dials being so poorly visibile to the driver in the 992. Form follows function indeed, not the othe way around.
Neglecting your core principles as a brand is what waters down your value and subsequently results.
How those values are expressed is a world of rich possibilities and debate for us as potential recipients thereof.
P.s. this bit made me laugh more than I should: "c) pay McKinsey or Bain a lot of money to figure out what went wrong with the company in the 2010s."
Nice one. Gives them types a reason to whip out all that blubber around 'Reconnecting to your front line business' and such indeed.
A: Engines. Porsche has to move in a given direction that is not favourable to us petrolheads due to emissions regulations, so that we cannot blame them for.
The choices they make however, especially putting a 4 banger in the 718 is indeed one that does not sit well with me.
I'd rather (leaving the emission regulations up for another debate) have seen smaller turbo's or a very mild electric assistance on the base 911 block for the 718.
B: Pricing and product (special editions).
I think we can all agree that Porsche is stretching things quite a bit or perhaps as far as they can in this respect. However, if the market accepts it, fair play to Porsche.
Also, when taking a step back about the aspect of market; The income gap is rising all around the globe, so Porsche is simply moving along with the potential target group. Not something you can blame them for.
Whilst several of us will benefit from this pattern sitting somethere in the top of the food chain in terms of earnings, I do think this is an obscene pattern that does not benefit the advancement of humankind.
C: Design.
C1 Looks.
Agreed that Porsches are and have never been the most beautiful cars.
C2 Ergonomy.
Losing sight of nailing design from the ergonomic perspective is a sin Porsche should not allow.
Shame on porsche for indeed allowing the instrument dials being so poorly visibile to the driver in the 992. Form follows function indeed, not the othe way around.
Neglecting your core principles as a brand is what waters down your value and subsequently results.
How those values are expressed is a world of rich possibilities and debate for us as potential recipients thereof.
P.s. this bit made me laugh more than I should: "c) pay McKinsey or Bain a lot of money to figure out what went wrong with the company in the 2010s."
Nice one. Gives them types a reason to whip out all that blubber around 'Reconnecting to your front line business' and such indeed.
05-16-2019, 07:40 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
To the OP - sorry, not feeling your pain.
What do you drive? I have my suspicions ...
What do you drive? I have my suspicions ...
05-16-2019, 08:53 AM
#5
Car enthusiasts as a whole have been on a decline for years. Electric cars, large “do everything” cars, and fancy technology/features now rule the consumers’ mind... not so much driving, sound, etc. Porsche biggest market (China) are just a bunch of brand ******, no one cares about how the car drives, passion, soul, ability to tweak engine, etc... base boxsters sell like hot cakes there. So, Porsche is a company trying to make a profit... let’s at least be thankful they are still making sports cars in general.
05-16-2019, 09:03 AM
#6
Rennlist Member
Valid points OP but Porsche is not alone in this new business model as many other manufacturers are going in the same direction. Just look at how many special edition cars are available today from Mustangs to Ferraris. I am a long-time BMW M car fan/owner and they are going the same direction. An M3 is longer just an M3. Now you can have a base model, competition model, club sport model, or GTS model and im sure more variants are in the pipeline. And of course, they slightly improve each one throughout the life cycle to entice upgrading. I think this is just the way the automotive industry is now, desperately trying to fill every single niche for every possible combination of features/performance.
05-16-2019, 12:31 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
I see the original post has now been deleted which is probably a good thing because i could not disagree more fundamentally with almost everything you wrote.
I think you stated that the thing that upset you the most about the 992 was that you could not see the outer two dials of the 992 dash. Have you ever driven any 911? You have never been able to clearly see the outer dials on any 911 from at least the G Series onward. On a 991, the outer dials are especially useless.
You also attacked the perceived quality of the 992 and yet the step up in the quality of the external and internal fixtures and fittings over the 991 (and I own 3 x 991) is substantial.
The model range of 911s has not really changed since the 997. There has always been a base, an S, a GTS, a Turbo and Turbo S, etc. With the 991 they introduced the Touring (a very good thing) and re-introduced the T from the 60s. So where is the dilution of the 911 lineage?
As for the 718, it is a much better car than the 986 in every aspect.....except for the sound..... but only because it is different and some people just cannot get over that.
I think you stated that the thing that upset you the most about the 992 was that you could not see the outer two dials of the 992 dash. Have you ever driven any 911? You have never been able to clearly see the outer dials on any 911 from at least the G Series onward. On a 991, the outer dials are especially useless.
You also attacked the perceived quality of the 992 and yet the step up in the quality of the external and internal fixtures and fittings over the 991 (and I own 3 x 991) is substantial.
The model range of 911s has not really changed since the 997. There has always been a base, an S, a GTS, a Turbo and Turbo S, etc. With the 991 they introduced the Touring (a very good thing) and re-introduced the T from the 60s. So where is the dilution of the 911 lineage?
As for the 718, it is a much better car than the 986 in every aspect.....except for the sound..... but only because it is different and some people just cannot get over that.
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05-16-2019, 04:01 PM
#8
I see the original post has now been deleted which is probably a good thing because i could not disagree more fundamentally with almost everything you wrote.
I think you stated that the thing that upset you the most about the 992 was that you could not see the outer two dials of the 992 dash. Have you ever driven any 911? You have never been able to clearly see the outer dials on any 911 from at least the G Series onward. On a 991, the outer dials are especially useless.
You also attacked the perceived quality of the 992 and yet the step up in the quality of the external and internal fixtures and fittings over the 991 (and I own 3 x 991) is substantial.
The model range of 911s has not really changed since the 997. There has always been a base, an S, a GTS, a Turbo and Turbo S, etc. With the 991 they introduced the Touring (a very good thing) and re-introduced the T from the 60s. So where is the dilution of the 911 lineage?
As for the 718, it is a much better car than the 986 in every aspect.....except for the sound..... but only because it is different and some people just cannot get over that.
I think you stated that the thing that upset you the most about the 992 was that you could not see the outer two dials of the 992 dash. Have you ever driven any 911? You have never been able to clearly see the outer dials on any 911 from at least the G Series onward. On a 991, the outer dials are especially useless.
You also attacked the perceived quality of the 992 and yet the step up in the quality of the external and internal fixtures and fittings over the 991 (and I own 3 x 991) is substantial.
The model range of 911s has not really changed since the 997. There has always been a base, an S, a GTS, a Turbo and Turbo S, etc. With the 991 they introduced the Touring (a very good thing) and re-introduced the T from the 60s. So where is the dilution of the 911 lineage?
As for the 718, it is a much better car than the 986 in every aspect.....except for the sound..... but only because it is different and some people just cannot get over that.
(runs away)
05-17-2019, 03:58 AM
#9
Racer
Car enthusiasts as a whole have been on a decline for years. Electric cars, large “do everything” cars, and fancy technology/features now rule the consumers’ mind... not so much driving, sound, etc. Porsche biggest market (China) are just a bunch of brand ******, no one cares about how the car drives, passion, soul, ability to tweak engine, etc... base boxsters sell like hot cakes there. So, Porsche is a company trying to make a profit... let’s at least be thankful they are still making sports cars in general.
A base boxster is a great Porsche sports car.