C/D testing director calls the 992 like he sees it
03-21-2019, 08:58 PM
#1
C/D testing director calls the 992 like he sees it
A refreshing and honest opinion article voicing legitimate concerns about the future of Porsche and what the 992 represents.
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...es-still-good/
“The first sign of questionable decisions at Porsche came a few months ago, when I got my first-hand account of the new 911. Not because I thought the 992 was going to be horrible to drive, but because of how significant a departure the 992 makes. Money was clearly taken out of the interior. As Pete Stout, editor of the Porsche-focused 000 Magazine, pointed out, form no longer followed function. Exhibit A: the fake cowl-intake cutlines in the hood. And the addition of options and features, such as active-safety systems, that remove control from the driver. All changes that are very unlike Porsche.”
Bravo to K.C. Colwell for calling it like he sees it!
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...es-still-good/
“The first sign of questionable decisions at Porsche came a few months ago, when I got my first-hand account of the new 911. Not because I thought the 992 was going to be horrible to drive, but because of how significant a departure the 992 makes. Money was clearly taken out of the interior. As Pete Stout, editor of the Porsche-focused 000 Magazine, pointed out, form no longer followed function. Exhibit A: the fake cowl-intake cutlines in the hood. And the addition of options and features, such as active-safety systems, that remove control from the driver. All changes that are very unlike Porsche.”
Bravo to K.C. Colwell for calling it like he sees it!
03-21-2019, 09:58 PM
#2
Refreshing indeed.
03-21-2019, 10:06 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
It's just one man's opinion. Don't buy adaptive cruise if it offends you. IMO, Porsche's Power Steering Plus on the 991 turns the car into a Cadillac, but I haven't heard anybody criticize the 991 for being "The End of Porsche". The few days it rains here every year I won't be driving my Porsches, so the 'rain sensor' is irrelevant to me. Everybody seems to love the 991 gauge cluster, but how many people use the speedometer? I mean the dial the size of a Post-It that covers 225mph with 25mph increments, not the digital readout...answer is nobody...so it's a waste of valuable space in front of the driver. The 992's is configurable, useful, and gorgeous. Criticism of the 991 hood creases? People are paying a literal fortune for throwback paint and upholstery schemes from the same era on their new GT3s. And the 991 interior was form following function? Please...why the transmission tunnel on a rear engine/transaxle car?
At some point the peanut gallery needs to step aside and see if those actually writing checks will line up for the 992. If they don't, at that point we can debate why.
At some point the peanut gallery needs to step aside and see if those actually writing checks will line up for the 992. If they don't, at that point we can debate why.
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03-21-2019, 10:42 PM
#4
Don't buy adaptive cruise if it offends you. Collision mitigation braking is what offends me but unfortunately that’s standard equipment now.
IMO, I haven't heard anybody criticize the 991 for being "The End of Porsche". Because it wasn’t...
The few days it rains here every year I won't be driving my Porsches, so the 'rain sensor' is irrelevant to me. Yet it’s still one more thing to add needless complexity and cause a problem down the road.
Everybody seems to love the 991 gauge cluster, but how many people use the speedometer? I mean the dial the size of a Post-It that covers 225mph with 25mph increments, not the digital readout...answer is nobody...so it's a waste of valuable space in front of the driver. You’ve missed the point there.
Criticism of the 991 hood creases? What hood creases?
And the 991 interior was form following function? Well , YES, the console controls are within easier reach and the shifter is as close as it could be to the steering wheel for those of us who actually shift our cars.
03-22-2019, 02:08 AM
#6
Drifting
This is what many of the RL faithful have been saying for months, most notably on STG's thread that was closed by the RL powers that be. Fortunately, RL has no control over C and D, otherwise, that article might get banned as well. In fact, this very thread may get banned as they banned another 992 critique thread a couple weeks ago. If I get banned for making this comment, it's been good, guys and gals.
03-22-2019, 06:24 AM
#7
Good article. Lets hope it doesn't come to this, and also that Porsche "compensates" for this development (a more grown up 911) by making the next gen Cayman and Boxter even lighter, more focused and purer driver's cars than today, and the same with the GTx derivatives of the 992 - putting more distance between "normal" 992s and these versions
Porsche obviously needs to modernise and develop. The Cayenne Coupe is a sad expression of this. Maybe the 991.2 wasn't in desperate need of updating, but I don't really see why the 992 is so bad, even though it could be called a 991.3 - its an improvement and modernisation in most respects of an already fantastic car (according to most reviewers, I am yet to drive one). Of course its looks inside and out is subjective, and certain details (shifter, door handles) are annoying.
Porsche obviously needs to modernise and develop. The Cayenne Coupe is a sad expression of this. Maybe the 991.2 wasn't in desperate need of updating, but I don't really see why the 992 is so bad, even though it could be called a 991.3 - its an improvement and modernisation in most respects of an already fantastic car (according to most reviewers, I am yet to drive one). Of course its looks inside and out is subjective, and certain details (shifter, door handles) are annoying.
Last edited by adamlew; 03-22-2019 at 07:36 AM. Reason: spelling
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03-22-2019, 07:22 AM
#8
An alternative point of view here:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...2019-uk-review
"it’s even more incisive and precise in its handling than the 991 thanks to the influence of the bigger wheels, wider tracks, quicker steering, lighter and stiffer body and overhauled suspension"
"Notably more agile and incisive through tighter bends than a like-for-like 991, it's a shade more vertically composed over bigger lumps and bumps too"
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...2019-uk-review
"it’s even more incisive and precise in its handling than the 991 thanks to the influence of the bigger wheels, wider tracks, quicker steering, lighter and stiffer body and overhauled suspension"
"Notably more agile and incisive through tighter bends than a like-for-like 991, it's a shade more vertically composed over bigger lumps and bumps too"
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03-22-2019, 09:56 AM
#9
Race Car
"And the addition of options and features, such as active-safety systems, that remove control from the driver. All changes that are very unlike Porsche.”
A classic example of making stuff up to support a weak argument. Had he actually read about it or experienced it, he would have known that the rain sensor does not take control away. It warns the driver, who then can activate the technology. Oh my, what a horrible option to have! Is it ignorance or dishonesty that leads to his conclusion?
As for commenting about the new "retro" creases in the hood, that is like complaining that the headlights recall the historic Porsche "face" rather than cat eyes or pimples, or whatever he thinks is more aesthetically pleasing.
It would be amazing that such nonsense gets repeated, except that is what some specialize in doing.
A classic example of making stuff up to support a weak argument. Had he actually read about it or experienced it, he would have known that the rain sensor does not take control away. It warns the driver, who then can activate the technology. Oh my, what a horrible option to have! Is it ignorance or dishonesty that leads to his conclusion?
As for commenting about the new "retro" creases in the hood, that is like complaining that the headlights recall the historic Porsche "face" rather than cat eyes or pimples, or whatever he thinks is more aesthetically pleasing.
It would be amazing that such nonsense gets repeated, except that is what some specialize in doing.
03-22-2019, 10:22 AM
#10
"And the addition of options and features, such as active-safety systems, that remove control from the driver. All changes that are very unlike Porsche.”
A classic example of making stuff up to support a weak argument. Had he actually read about it or experienced it, he would have known that the rain sensor does not take control away. It warns the driver, who then can activate the technology. Oh my, what a horrible option to have! Is it ignorance or dishonesty that leads to his conclusion? Warns the driver of what exactly? That the roads are wet and thus traction may be limited? Does Porsche now assume that a 911 driver lacks eyes connected to a brain?
As for commenting about the new "retro" creases in the hood, that is like complaining that the headlights recall the historic Porsche "face" rather than cat eyes or pimples, or whatever he thinks is more aesthetically pleasing. The creases in the hood of a classic 911 were a form following function feature for air to be directed into a scoop. Without such a scoop in the 992 it is a lazy design feature that is meant to evoke a function that no longer exists. Seeing that the headlights are still there I would say the headlights can be however they need to be as they are providing a function first.
It would be amazing that such nonsense gets repeated, except that is what some specialize in doing. What amazes me is how far this article has gone over the heads of some members here.
A classic example of making stuff up to support a weak argument. Had he actually read about it or experienced it, he would have known that the rain sensor does not take control away. It warns the driver, who then can activate the technology. Oh my, what a horrible option to have! Is it ignorance or dishonesty that leads to his conclusion? Warns the driver of what exactly? That the roads are wet and thus traction may be limited? Does Porsche now assume that a 911 driver lacks eyes connected to a brain?
As for commenting about the new "retro" creases in the hood, that is like complaining that the headlights recall the historic Porsche "face" rather than cat eyes or pimples, or whatever he thinks is more aesthetically pleasing. The creases in the hood of a classic 911 were a form following function feature for air to be directed into a scoop. Without such a scoop in the 992 it is a lazy design feature that is meant to evoke a function that no longer exists. Seeing that the headlights are still there I would say the headlights can be however they need to be as they are providing a function first.
It would be amazing that such nonsense gets repeated, except that is what some specialize in doing. What amazes me is how far this article has gone over the heads of some members here.
03-22-2019, 10:59 AM
#11
Good article. Lets hope it doesn't come to this, and also that Porsche "compensates" for this development (a more grown up 911) by making the next gen Cayman and Boxter even lighter, more focused and purer driver's cars than today, and the same with the GTx derivatives of the 992 - putting more distance between "normal" 992s and these versions
03-22-2019, 11:03 AM
#12
Instructor
Understandable the article is triggered by his own opinion of the Cayenne Coupe, but once it pivots to the 992 I think its less effective in proving his bold opening headline.
“Money was clearly taken out of the interior.” —Virtually every other reviewer has noted the interior quality remains high like Chris Harris did (many stating it’s a notch up like Car Magazine; “Porsche 911 interior: the same, but better”). Design is subjective, but he goes on to argue that Porsche is making interior cheaper so more options are added. Currently Porsche offers more ways to dress up a 991 interior than a 992. The full leather option has been around since at least the 80’s and interior trim choices since the at least the 993.
“But I'm one of those base 911 buyers who cringed when the base price of a 911 crept past $90,000 in 2017. (Well, I'm not quite a buyer, but you know what I mean.)” — Inflation... hard to believe. A base 997 carrera cost $69,300 in 2005. With inflation that’s over $90,000 in 2018 dollars. These are not cheap cars.
“Porsche spent money adopting adaptive cruise control for the 911 and a system to tell the stability control when there is too much water on the road.” — one is optional and has been an option on the 991 since at least 2013, the other is optional to engage.
No problem in respectfully agreeing or disagreeing with others if we like or dislike this 992 generation, but I think there’s been bolder steps taken over the years by Porsche between generations than between 991 and 992, to merit the “end of Porsche as we know it” headline. Just to name a few: Hydraulic steering, four wheel drive, triptonic transmission and active spoiler on the 964, water cooling on the 996, increased wheelbase, moving engine forward, electronic steering on the 991, and turbocharged engine in the 991.2.
“Money was clearly taken out of the interior.” —Virtually every other reviewer has noted the interior quality remains high like Chris Harris did (many stating it’s a notch up like Car Magazine; “Porsche 911 interior: the same, but better”). Design is subjective, but he goes on to argue that Porsche is making interior cheaper so more options are added. Currently Porsche offers more ways to dress up a 991 interior than a 992. The full leather option has been around since at least the 80’s and interior trim choices since the at least the 993.
“But I'm one of those base 911 buyers who cringed when the base price of a 911 crept past $90,000 in 2017. (Well, I'm not quite a buyer, but you know what I mean.)” — Inflation... hard to believe. A base 997 carrera cost $69,300 in 2005. With inflation that’s over $90,000 in 2018 dollars. These are not cheap cars.
“Porsche spent money adopting adaptive cruise control for the 911 and a system to tell the stability control when there is too much water on the road.” — one is optional and has been an option on the 991 since at least 2013, the other is optional to engage.
No problem in respectfully agreeing or disagreeing with others if we like or dislike this 992 generation, but I think there’s been bolder steps taken over the years by Porsche between generations than between 991 and 992, to merit the “end of Porsche as we know it” headline. Just to name a few: Hydraulic steering, four wheel drive, triptonic transmission and active spoiler on the 964, water cooling on the 996, increased wheelbase, moving engine forward, electronic steering on the 991, and turbocharged engine in the 991.2.
03-22-2019, 05:16 PM
#14
Good to hear a journalist give an honest opinion of the Canamera rather than suckling on the teat of Porsche so they get an invite to the next launch.
03-22-2019, 07:21 PM
#15
