K-A

So 992 reviews are in, and as expected, like every new generation, it's a fundamental step up from the old one. If you pay attention closely, every modern era new gen seems to knock about half a second off the 0-60 and and maybe a little bit more off 1/4 mile time than a previous gen, e.g: 997.2>991.1, 991.1>991.2 (considering this a new gen due to powerplant swap), 991.2>992. Based on Porsche's official stated figures between gens, Ring times of the 992 (S) from the 991.2 appear to be the largest generational (full or half cycle) Ring time improvement yet.

However, if you also pay attention closely, 997.2>991.1 was the last 911 gen to get a weight drop from what it replaced. The 991.2 added about 100-115 lbs, but an increase in power and torque was the "justification." Now the 992 AGAIN adds another 150 or so lbs, but gets even more power/torque and now an even more efficient transmission to put said power down.

When the 991.2 came out, one complaint from the .1 owners was that it adds considerable weight. The defense was that despite said weight, performance is up.

Now with the 992, I see plenty of 991.2 owners criticizing another weight gain, and will assume future debates will once again have justifiers stating "well, at the end of the day, performance is up."

It's a tricky line to walk. On one hand, I feel weight is always noticeable in a sense. Despite how fast a car is. IMO weight is a big reason as to why some cars feel more engaging than others, despite power figures and handling tech/tuning. The 991 Turbo is one example in this. It's a blisteringly fast car that will embarrass some million dollar Hypercars, but it's so inherently heavy therefore sedated, that it gets criticism for not being raw nor engaging enough.

Steering feel is a big way to "disguise" weight, which Porsche has taken advantage of. The 991.2 touted more natural tuning to steering feel which made up for some of its weight gain (fluid steering gives a perception of increased nimbleness which gives the perception of less weight) (you also have tech trickery like PTV+, then especially RAS which go the next step in highly disguising more weight). And based on reviews, the 992 seems to have taken this a step further. Per some reviews, it seems people being enamored by how connective the new steering is, is perhaps doing well to mask the extra weight (I haven't read or seen nearly all reviews).

So, in your opinion, when does the trade off of more power and performance, not stack up to the loss of weight? For example, if the "994" becomes a 4k lb porker which uses advanced tech and has 550 HP in CS outfit, would that be a jump up or down? It's an interesting question as Porsche seem to have "given up" on lowering 911 weight, especially now that their hands are tied with forced induction (heavy), tech (heavy), and inevitably, hybrids/ev's (heavier).

Dr. Ice

atombomb33

Hard to have any informed discussion in a thread like this until people have driven the car.

chuckbdc

delete

K-A

Good point.

This reminds me of another thing. I wish they still offered the "Narrowbody" version. IMO the 991 C2 has perfectly proportional hips and the less width gives it a more nimble, compact feel (and literal fitment), also would probably save a few pounds.

Rennolazine

Porsche911GTS'16

The 991.1 lost weight and improved performance. Win, win. Not so the 991.2 and 992. The turbocharging of the Carreras led to improved performance at the cost of increased weight. The weight increased in the 992 for various reasons, including the particulate filter (which is not in the North American cars). I'm a big believer that oftentimes, less is more. AP and the GT department definitely would agree with that, down to putting a sticker on the hood of the GT3-RS for the purpose of weight saving. Not so much in the 911 Carrera department, which seems to be going more and more toward a mass-produced, homogenized luxury sports sedan.

Carrera-T

96redLT4

I think this is a really great question. Light weight has always defined the 911 from the early days of racing when it would beat much larger horsepower heavier cars. The other marque that really 'gets it' in the weight savings department is McLaren which seems to be able to keep its cars around 3000 lbs. Their cars manage to have high hp albeit turbocharged.

J

Doug H

Lol, someone with a 991 complaining about weight.

Just curious, has any here driven some of these light-weight 911s of the past? I doubt many in here would make it more than a week trying to drive these things on the street before they would hate it and ditch for their modern cars. Uncomfy, you smell like oil after a drive, no AC, heavy clutch that will wear you out n traffic or at stop lights and super heavy steering when trying to navigate low speed parking lots. Add that to the handling characteristic, lack of turn in and the propensity for snap oversteer of the light weight era cars . . . and me thinks some are just looking to belly ache and complain for sake of belly aching and complaining.

The whole issue with weight is handling and my guess is the 991 and the 992 limits far exceed the skill set of most on here. I definitely don't understand complaining about weight before one has even sat behind the wheel and experienced the handling characteristics and feel of the car.

atombomb33

Bingo. Well said.

stealthpilot

I think the answer boils down to what you do with the weight. For example, there is already a 911 Porker edition which weighs 4.5k. It's the Panamera. With that car they put the weight into room for 4 adults and a lot of extra luxury gear so it's slower. It's adding weight without adding performance. However in the case of say the 911 Turbo S, the weight is in a lot of things which do add performance like a bigger engine, PDCC, and four wheel steering so in this case those additional pieces of equipment actually improve lap time.

Weight is one dimension of what engineers need to build into a well performing car. Another example. Many years ago I rented a Toyota Camry from Hertz. It weighed 3200lbs. My Lexus GS460 at the time weighed about 4000lbs. But the Lexus could carry much more speed through corners, and was more agile and had a lot more grip. Because it has active suspension, active anti-roll bars, and much wider and stickier rubber.

So to answer your question, you can add weight until you run out of things which add net performance benefit measured in lap time which accounts for both acceleration and cornering speed.

minthral

To complain about weight and ignore everything else is not logical. That's an emotional statement.

The reason to keep weight down is to improve acceleration, stopping distance, and fuel economy. ENGINEERING AND DESIGN of the whole package determine how a car handles, how fast it goes, how quick it stops etc etc.

If someone thinks that they should go find an older 'lighter weight car' and it will be better just because its weighs less is really missing out. You can't just ignore the whole equation and focus on the weight variable. That's completely illogical. Older cars drove like sheeeeet compared to new cars...they were also less comfortable and would be considered dangerous by today's safety standards.

I guess some people get the warm and fuzzies that they can put their car on a weight scale and see a lower number?

Instead this argument should be 'at what point is attempting to reduce weight a wasted effort when engineering a car?' Otherwise its like saying 'booo hooo this new motor is faster and more efficient, but it weights more per HP produced so its bad.'

minthral

This is a good answer. I'd like to point out that its not weight alone that makes Panamera slower or corner worse. Its the overall design... its 4 passenger car with a huge trunk. Its plenty sporty, but its not designed to be a sports car. Its suspension is different. Balance is different. Its just a differently engineered car and end result is higher weight (not the other way around).

limegreen

Another perspective is that if Porsche wasn't concerned about the weight then they wouldn't be continuously going through the effort and expense to add lightweight materials along with PTV and RAS etc. to each subsequent model to counteract the weight of the additional components. They are likely just as worried about it as many of us are.

A lightweight car is a nimble car that is able to do more with less. Less power , less grip , less fuel consumption and less reliant on trickery to make for a great driving experience. It's ironically the key to all the efficiency Porsche is struggling to find across their lineup but for some reason they trade it off time and time again for what I'd consider gimmicky add ons and luxury components that do little for the driving experience.

Just because a Panamera or Cayenne are able to seemingly repel the laws of physics with huge power numbers and massive steam roller tires doesn't mean that they should. Nor does it make the experience of driving the car feel anything close to what I'd consider nimble.