At what point does the trade off of more power/speed become inferior to added weight?
#61
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There are two types of owners:
1) Its a car
2) Its a toy
Seems like a reality disconnect between the two. Question is what do you REALLY want. Some people will day dream about cars like the 4C, but after actually sitting inside and driving it for any significant duration, reality sets in.
Getting in is a chore, mainly because you're afraid of scratching the huge threshold. Once you get going, lots of unpleasant road noise and a migraine inducing exhaust drone fills the cabin. The seats are uncomfortable, unsupportive, and have almost no adjustment, so you can't see the speedometer because the top of the steering wheel is in the way. When you adjust your head and eyes on the instrument cluster, its confusing. You hit a pothole and the the suspension crashes, jolting your back and the steering wheel tries to rip your hand off as you make mental note to keep a grip with both (not checking cellphone). As you try pass traffic, turbo lag is noticeable and power delivery is crude/boosty. The dry dual clutch transmission jerks around as if its going to fall out in at the stoplight and makes you wonder about overheating reports on forums. After you get the road to yourself, boredom sets in and you turn on the single din aftermarket unit which sounds like crap. As you speed through a curve, the car feels all over the place and going 100 MPH, but looking down its only 65. Not impressed and make a mental note that the miata has more body roll, but its actually lighter than a 4C...and that you remember taking a camry through the turn faster and easier. A stop at a store has creepy people eyeing you as you have a second go to get into the truck using the manual release (darn lever doesn't always work)..the extra groceries that don't fit go in passenger's seat. There's a sudden rainstorm on the way home and the car is skidding all over the road... slow white knuckle drive home - wouldn't want to damage the un-repairable carbon tub, assuming the lack of safety tech wont kill you so it matter.
Its not a car... its a toy. As much as people claim they want cars like 4C, no one buys them for good reason. People who buy a car like this treat it as 'an experience' and many will trade it in after 1-2 years when they get bored and want a 'new experience.'
For me, the 4C is just plain bad. It doesn't handle well despite the low weight and manual steering. Its not comfortable. It doesn't sound good or even all that fun. Questionable build quality, materials, and reliability. Sure is pretty and a nice design piece that many might lust over...too bad reality exists.
Of course people have different preferences... I'm in the 'its a car' group. For me its the whole experience and not just 'let me go have a fun drive.' I went through that phase and its out of my system...I'd get a cheap disposable track only car if I wanted that (rip interior out, install cage etc etc). Street cars are street cars and excessive scarifies for lower weight is stupid...best to add more power than throw the radio out.
The 991.2 (and 992) is heavier, but I'm confident they feel lighter than 991.1 or any previous gen due to so much more power and things like AWD, rear steering, dynamic chassis components. They're just better cars, but maybe what people really want is a slow sloppier raw toy with character...not me.![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
1) Its a car
2) Its a toy
Seems like a reality disconnect between the two. Question is what do you REALLY want. Some people will day dream about cars like the 4C, but after actually sitting inside and driving it for any significant duration, reality sets in.
Getting in is a chore, mainly because you're afraid of scratching the huge threshold. Once you get going, lots of unpleasant road noise and a migraine inducing exhaust drone fills the cabin. The seats are uncomfortable, unsupportive, and have almost no adjustment, so you can't see the speedometer because the top of the steering wheel is in the way. When you adjust your head and eyes on the instrument cluster, its confusing. You hit a pothole and the the suspension crashes, jolting your back and the steering wheel tries to rip your hand off as you make mental note to keep a grip with both (not checking cellphone). As you try pass traffic, turbo lag is noticeable and power delivery is crude/boosty. The dry dual clutch transmission jerks around as if its going to fall out in at the stoplight and makes you wonder about overheating reports on forums. After you get the road to yourself, boredom sets in and you turn on the single din aftermarket unit which sounds like crap. As you speed through a curve, the car feels all over the place and going 100 MPH, but looking down its only 65. Not impressed and make a mental note that the miata has more body roll, but its actually lighter than a 4C...and that you remember taking a camry through the turn faster and easier. A stop at a store has creepy people eyeing you as you have a second go to get into the truck using the manual release (darn lever doesn't always work)..the extra groceries that don't fit go in passenger's seat. There's a sudden rainstorm on the way home and the car is skidding all over the road... slow white knuckle drive home - wouldn't want to damage the un-repairable carbon tub, assuming the lack of safety tech wont kill you so it matter.
Its not a car... its a toy. As much as people claim they want cars like 4C, no one buys them for good reason. People who buy a car like this treat it as 'an experience' and many will trade it in after 1-2 years when they get bored and want a 'new experience.'
For me, the 4C is just plain bad. It doesn't handle well despite the low weight and manual steering. Its not comfortable. It doesn't sound good or even all that fun. Questionable build quality, materials, and reliability. Sure is pretty and a nice design piece that many might lust over...too bad reality exists.
Of course people have different preferences... I'm in the 'its a car' group. For me its the whole experience and not just 'let me go have a fun drive.' I went through that phase and its out of my system...I'd get a cheap disposable track only car if I wanted that (rip interior out, install cage etc etc). Street cars are street cars and excessive scarifies for lower weight is stupid...best to add more power than throw the radio out.
The 991.2 (and 992) is heavier, but I'm confident they feel lighter than 991.1 or any previous gen due to so much more power and things like AWD, rear steering, dynamic chassis components. They're just better cars, but maybe what people really want is a slow sloppier raw toy with character...not me.
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Essentially what I want is a toy that can also act as a car. The 911 I guess is *the* champion in this respect. The 991 maybe pushes a bit too far in the “car” category but the relatively gruff and communicative sound of a (uncorked) .1 mostly pacifies me. I like things to feel rawer in a sports car, but that’s because my car is at least 80% toy. And the 991 is so inherently car like, that you can strip a lot of fluff out and still be left with something plenty civilized, more so than a 997 (the 997 is my perhaps ideal choice, likely the perfect 911 balance, except I just think the 991 looks leagues better which is why I chose it over said 997).
The 4C would be great if it was car number 3 or 5, but that’s too little “car.” The Cayman (flat six) is the utmost ideal balance for what I’m looking for. But there were a few things the 991 provided that lured me into it (one fundamental thing being more headroom and overall slight cabin space which my height requires, another being simply the lure of the 911 grandeur itself, being my lifelong dream car).
#62
Rennlist Member
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Some great perspectives in the last few posts, all very valid yet not entirely in agreement with each other.
The one thing that they all have in common is that they make me appreciate my 981BS even more.
The one thing that they all have in common is that they make me appreciate my 981BS even more.
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#63
Rennlist Member
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There are two types of owners:
1) Its a car
2) Its a toy
Seems like a reality disconnect between the two. Question is what do you REALLY want. Some people will day dream about cars like the 4C, but after actually sitting inside and driving it for any significant duration, reality sets in.
1) Its a car
2) Its a toy
Seems like a reality disconnect between the two. Question is what do you REALLY want. Some people will day dream about cars like the 4C, but after actually sitting inside and driving it for any significant duration, reality sets in.
3) It's a track car
Your intended use will determine what qualities are important. Every car is a compromise in some regard.
#64
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
There are two types of owners:
1) Its a car
2) Its a toy
Seems like a reality disconnect between the two. Question is what do you REALLY want. Some people will day dream about cars like the 4C, but after actually sitting inside and driving it for any significant duration, reality sets in.
1) Its a car
2) Its a toy
Seems like a reality disconnect between the two. Question is what do you REALLY want. Some people will day dream about cars like the 4C, but after actually sitting inside and driving it for any significant duration, reality sets in.
Technology has made almost every car on the road so bloody fast (compared to anything from 10-20 years ago) it's easy to call anything with two doors and hot lap times a sports car.
Sports cars are not very comfortable, not easy to get in / out of. As far as I'm concerned they should not have A/C, cup holders, cruise control etc.... You get the point. If you would take your mother to church in it, probably not a sports car (unless it's my mom, she loved driving the 355GTS).
You have to make a point, an effort if you will, to enjoy and appreciate a sports car. They are not for everyone and that's the point. So yes, a toy.