992 has new/bigger turbos with more lag and 8 other facts! - Page 4 - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

Go Back  Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums > Water Cooled Technical Discussion Areas > 992
Reload this Page >

992 has new/bigger turbos with more lag and 8 other facts!

Notices
992 This Forum for the turbocharged non Turbo 911

992 has new/bigger turbos with more lag and 8 other facts!

Old 12-25-2018, 02:41 AM
  #46  
groundhog
User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 778
Default

Originally Posted by Drifting View Post
Plenty of people are worrying about lag.

Not really, look at the sales figures. The only people that worry about it don't care to adapt and modify their driving styles.

Own a GTS and its a non - issue as most will attest. From my perspective its a total non - event - driven past plenty of GT3s too .

Its how you drive not what you drive. People make far to much mileage out of this debate - largely journalists, most don't care.

I don't either and I track and road rally both NA and turbo charged Porsches. Both have strengths, both have weaknesses.

Porsche do a good job maximising the strengths of both.

I recognise people have preferences, but one doesn't trump the other - its just a preference. No big deal.

Last edited by groundhog; 12-25-2018 at 02:58 AM.
groundhog is online now  
Old 12-25-2018, 03:01 AM
  #47  
K-A
User
 
K-A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,943
Default

Originally Posted by groundhog View Post

Not really, look at the sales figures. The only people that worry about it don't care to adapt and modify their driving styles.

Own a GTS and its a non - issue as most will attest. From my perspective its a total non - event - driven past plenty of GT3s too .

Its how you drive not what you drive. People make far to much mileage out of this debate - largely journalists, most don't care.

I don't either and I track and road rally both NA and turbo charged Porsches. Both have strengths, both have weaknesses.

Porsche do a good job maximising the strengths of both.

I recognise people have preferences, but one doesn't trump the other - its just a preference. No big deal.
Well, in U.S 991.2’s have been some of the lowest selling 911’s. And it looks even worse for Carrera’s when the fact that the majority of 2017 and 2018 911 sales have been (N/A) GT cars (2018 is the first time in history the GT3 outsold the Carrera’s) comes up. Lag isn’t an issue to everyone, but it is to many.
K-A is offline  
Old 12-25-2018, 09:21 AM
  #48  
groundhog
User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 778
Default

Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Well, in U.S 991.2’s have been some of the lowest selling 911’s. And it looks even worse for Carrera’s when the fact that the majority of 2017 and 2018 911 sales have been (N/A) GT cars (2018 is the first time in history the GT3 outsold the Carrera’s) comes up. Lag isn’t an issue to everyone, but it is to many.

Porsche is a global company and lag isn't an issue to most - its simple, you just adjust your driving style; that applies when going from turbo to NA as it does from NA to turbo. Also, GT3s don't outsell Carreras on a global basis, its not even close. This may only apply in the US where they are cheap ~160k. Not a lot of point of a 9K redline when the speed limit is 70MPH (and most 991 GT3s don't see much track time).

lag is something people love to talk about but makes zip difference in the real world and in the main isn't even noticeable in a .2. In contrast, the lack of mid-range in NA cars is very noticeable - all the time.

People will buy what they like, if its a real problem they wont buy. Clearly they do.

Last edited by groundhog; 12-25-2018 at 09:51 AM.
groundhog is online now  
Old 12-25-2018, 06:26 PM
  #49  
Sausage416
User
 
Sausage416's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 31
Default

I've had a 991.2 gts, and now a 991.2 gt3. Turbo lag was very noticeable specially on the street.
Sausage416 is offline  
Old 12-25-2018, 09:53 PM
  #50  
groundhog
User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 778
Default

Originally Posted by Sausage416 View Post
I've had a 991.2 gts, and now a 991.2 gt3. Turbo lag was very noticeable specially on the street.
Fine, but you'll find plenty of others disagree - the issue is way overblown and most would prefer to have the mid-range which is near absent from the NA Porsches. The vast majority of owners, even on here, don't drive at full noise everywhere and they are not balancing cars on throttle.

Honestly, it has me beat why people drag it up and make a meal of it - for example this thread. The reality is the new 992 has a higher compression ratio engine than 991.2 - this means it will have a sharper response from the get go. Just goes to show how little Top Gear know.

I very much enjoy my driving (both on road and in timed competition and I couldn't care less) - you simply modify how you drive by a very small amount - these modern turbo engines aren't running 8:1 compression ratios as found in days of yore and this combined with DFI allows for linear delivery plus substantial mid-range power development due to the mid-range torque, a direct function of engine response due to enhanced total compression.
groundhog is online now  
Old 12-26-2018, 12:44 AM
  #51  
Frosty914
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 19
Default

for all on the interwebs bemoaning each successive iteration of the most revered sports car in history, you are old. possibly, just in your thought process. all the tech 'nanny' features, you can probably turn them off or, like the article stated, ignore them. is the car getting bigger and more comfortable? yes. as are Ferrari's, Lambo's and Kia's. is the shifter nub egregious? certainly. before you light your torches and run to the shed for your pitchforks, take a second this Christmas to appreciate what Porsche has given the world this last century! Phenomenal cars that bring smiles to our faces and excite the senses. a generation of car buyers/enthusiasts is coming of age and the last 2, possibly three, generations of the 911 will be their halo car. They'll be the ones buying the 992 in droves. So keep your money if you think the new 911 is a 'commie wagon' for having assisted driving aids, like every other new car. Porsche will be fine. Think happy thoughts of the 997 hitting the bottom of the depreciation curve and how you can pick one up on the cheap and turn it into a resto-mod. Relax, stop yelling into your flip phone, then go back out to your lawn chair and tell those damn kids to get off your lawn. ​​​​​​​
Frosty914 is offline  
Old 12-26-2018, 05:00 AM
  #52  
spdracerut
User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 250
Default

Originally Posted by Sausage416 View Post
I've had a 991.2 gts, and now a 991.2 gt3. Turbo lag was very noticeable specially on the street.
Moderately modified 991.2 GTS vs. 991.1 GT3 (Cobb stage 1 tune, catless exhaust, AMS intercoolers, BMC air filter, IPD plenum). I'll take a couple tenths of a second lag for over 200 lb-ft of torque at 4k rpm anyday. At 3k rpms, it's more like 230-240 lb-ft difference. If you look at the top 2k rpms of each powerband which is what you'd use on track, the 991.2 still has more power/area under the curve.

spdracerut is offline  
Old 12-26-2018, 05:34 AM
  #53  
Sausage416
User
 
Sausage416's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 31
Default

Originally Posted by groundhog View Post
Fine, but you'll find plenty of others disagree - the issue is way overblown and most would prefer to have the mid-range which is near absent from the NA Porsches. The vast majority of owners, even on here, don't drive at full noise everywhere and they are not balancing cars on throttle.

Honestly, it has me beat why people drag it up and make a meal of it - for example this thread. The reality is the new 992 has a higher compression ratio engine than 991.2 - this means it will have a sharper response from the get go. Just goes to show how little Top Gear know.

I very much enjoy my driving (both on road and in timed competition and I couldn't care less) - you simply modify how you drive by a very small amount - these modern turbo engines aren't running 8:1 compression ratios as found in days of yore and this combined with DFI allows for linear delivery plus substantial mid-range power development due to the mid-range torque, a direct function of engine response due to enhanced total compression.

I agreed, the turbo lag is way overblown, I’m not knocking on the 991.2 carrera, IMO I think the 991.2 is a better car than the 991.1 overall maybe except for sound. But you can’t say there is no lag, now that I’ve had the 991.2 gt3 for while, and recently driven a 991.2 gts ( friend bought it ) again, I’ve felt noticeable lag. When I hope back into the gt3 everything was razor sharp and instant, but I don’t think it’s fair to compare a gt to a regular 911.

speaking of mid range the 4.0 has a lot of mid range, almost turbo tq like. At the End of the day I just feel fortunate to get to experience both, they’re all great 911, turbo or NA.
Sausage416 is offline  
Old 12-26-2018, 05:37 AM
  #54  
Sausage416
User
 
Sausage416's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 31
Default

Originally Posted by spdracerut View Post
Moderately modified 991.2 GTS vs. 991.1 GT3 (Cobb stage 1 tune, catless exhaust, AMS intercoolers, BMC air filter, IPD plenum). I'll take a couple tenths of a second lag for over 200 lb-ft of torque at 4k rpm anyday. At 3k rpms, it's more like 230-240 lb-ft difference. If you look at the top 2k rpms of each powerband which is what you'd use on track, the 991.2 still has more power/area under the curve.

There are more to a car than just power, you should try out the new gt3/RS if you can. The raw emotional feel of a race car that a high turbo hp car can’t not replicate. If I was chasing power, I would’ve gotten a turbo s and tune it.
Sausage416 is offline  
Old 12-26-2018, 06:03 AM
  #55  
groundhog
User
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 778
Default

Originally Posted by Sausage416 View Post
There are more to a car than just power, you should try out the new gt3/RS if you can.
Agreed, but its a bit different when you're comparing a RWD Porsche with a RWD Porsche. Different ways to skin the cat
groundhog is online now  
Old 12-26-2018, 09:00 AM
  #56  
visitador
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
visitador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 1,190
Default

Originally Posted by captainkirk
Seriously no one here seems to be bothered by the Software controlling the car in locations you are in - Seriously...Nany Car from what I can tell. Request more data on this
You don't need to order InnoDrive. It is just enhanced adaptive cruise control. Haven't heard the Panamera crowd bitch about it
visitador is offline  
Old 12-26-2018, 09:54 AM
  #57  
garfunkle
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 284
Default

Originally Posted by Sausage416 View Post
I've had a 991.2 gts, and now a 991.2 gt3. Turbo lag was very noticeable specially on the street.
Yes - people that say it has no lag don't know what they are talking about. Just like people that say the Bose stereo in the 911 is good are ignorant.

I wish I was ignorant about coffee... once you know, you can't un-know.
garfunkle is offline  
Old 12-26-2018, 09:56 AM
  #58  
garfunkle
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 284
Default

Originally Posted by groundhog View Post
Fine, but you'll find plenty of others disagree - the issue is way overblown and most would prefer to have the mid-range which is near absent from the NA Porsches. The vast majority of owners, even on here, don't drive at full noise everywhere and they are not balancing cars on throttle.

Honestly, it has me beat why people drag it up and make a meal of it - for example this thread. The reality is the new 992 has a higher compression ratio engine than 991.2 - this means it will have a sharper response from the get go. Just goes to show how little Top Gear know.

I very much enjoy my driving (both on road and in timed competition and I couldn't care less) - you simply modify how you drive by a very small amount - these modern turbo engines aren't running 8:1 compression ratios as found in days of yore and this combined with DFI allows for linear delivery plus substantial mid-range power development due to the mid-range torque, a direct function of engine response due to enhanced total compression.
The 991.1 isn't missing midrange if you have it in the right gear and don't granny shift. Neither is better or worse - just very different.
garfunkle is offline  
Old 12-26-2018, 01:27 PM
  #59  
tgcrun
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
tgcrun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 511
Default

Originally Posted by garfunkle View Post
Yes - people that say it has no lag don't know what they are talking about. Just like people that say the Bose stereo in the 911 is good are ignorant.

I wish I was ignorant about coffee... once you know, you can't un-know.
Well, that's a pretty ignorant statement.
tgcrun is online now  
Old 12-26-2018, 10:40 PM
  #60  
Bob Z.
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Bob Z.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Marineland FL
Posts: 1,632
Default

Originally Posted by captainkirk View Post
I am 100% gonna wait before my order goes in - gonna see the new owner review first.

F that to ACC, if it aids in making a 911 a nagging car - I do not want a nagging car period This is absurd....I am buying a sports car not someone telling me when and where and how I should drive my sports car.
And if you change your mind and want a 991.2 PM me and I will hook you up with my SA, who will give you a nice discount on one, just like he has for several of us on Rennlist already.
Bob Z. is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us About Us Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: