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Old 10-10-2018, 01:31 AM
  #166  
Archimedes
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Originally Posted by stealthpilot View Post
Its a sports car. It's not a luxury car. It is designed for the track. That's what separates it from a GT car like a Bentley or a BMW.
Itís actually more GT these days, but thatís beside the point. You referenced the displays in actual purpose built race cars as being reason why the 911 should be digital, which makes no sense. Also, the luxury cars that you say the 911 is not all have digital dashes these days. The argument for or against it has nothing to do with race cars or luxury cars, it simply has to do with what a Porsche 911 buyer wants, and the 911 is somewhat unique in that the die hard owner tends to value the tradition in the model and the connection to its history.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:51 AM
  #167  
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I sat in the new Cayenne. I’m fine with the dash. The big screen is nice IMO, as well as the configurable instrument dials.
Remember, the 993 ended production 20 years ago. No going back.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:30 AM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by Archimedes
Itís actually more GT these days, but thatís beside the point. You referenced the displays in actual purpose built race cars as being reason why the 911 should be digital, which makes no sense. Also, the luxury cars that you say the 911 is not all have digital dashes these days. The argument for or against it has nothing to do with race cars or luxury cars, it simply has to do with what a Porsche 911 buyer wants, and the 911 is somewhat unique in that the die hard owner tends to value the tradition in the model and the connection to its history.
Simply don't agree. You are making the 911 buyer sound like a retro luxury car enthusiast rather than a modern sports car enthusiast.

Sports car drivers need info. Shift indicator lights, tire pressure and temperatures, etc. a speedometer needle is pretty useless and even an analog tachometer isn't really practical given how quickly our cars engines can hit the redline.

However since you don't like my Racecar examples, here are some Sports car examples which include Ferrari 488, Mclaren 570S, Mclaren P1, Lamborghini Aventador, Ford GT.

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Last edited by stealthpilot; 10-10-2018 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:42 AM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by Keadog
I sat in the new Cayenne. I’m fine with the dash. The big screen is nice IMO, as well as the configurable instrument dials.
Remember, the 993 ended production 20 years ago. No going back.
Exactly. And if you really want the retro experience you can buy a 993. There are plenty of vintage of Porsche's available. Porsche probably has more of its older models on the road than any other brand. And if you want modern mechanics, there are also companies like Singer.
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:55 PM
  #170  
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Porsche is building and designing cars for today's and tomorrow's buyer. They could care less about nostalgia. Technology and electronics are what buyers are wanting, especially in Porsche's # 1 sales market >> CHINA. The average buyer of these cars wants the latest and greatest. Doesn't always work in favor of the more traditional enthusiast who wants more simplicity and appreciates the driving experience first and foremost.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:12 PM
  #171  
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As much of a modern purist as I try to be , my issue is not solely with the digital displays themselves but rather how poorly integrated they are along with the questionable ergonomics and gimmicky , confused nature of the interior design as a whole.

The above sport car references are extremely focused purpose built sports cars which I absolutely love and their interiors reflect that with a very driver focused and no nonsense approach which I also love. This is also what the 911's of past used to be.

IF the 911 went back in that direction I would have far less to complain about. Unfortunately, it seems they are instead moving towards full on luxury car interiors that closely resemble their decidedly non sports car offerings and that infuriates me.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:23 PM
  #172  
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^^^ Agree ... with the sports car market struggling as is, and them wanting to grow and not lose ground in that segment, they try and cast the widest net as possible. That's what they're designing, two door cars that play double duty.
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:24 PM
  #173  
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^ Exactly limegreen. Based on the mule spyshots, Porsche doesn't appear to be putting in a dash like the Ferrari or McLaren. More like they're putting in something akin to the Panamera's.

Personally, I'd prefer a digital dash, if it's a good one, but I think Porsche has to tread carefully, and in no way does anything Porsche seems to be doing with the 992 say pure sports car. If anything it looks more GT than the 991, inside and out.
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Old 10-10-2018, 03:27 PM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by STG View Post
^^^ Agree ... with the sports car market struggling as is, and them wanting to grow and not lose ground in that segment, they try and cast the widest net as possible. That's what they're designing, two door cars that play double duty.
I will never understand why a company that offers a lineup of vehicles to suit different purposes will end up ultimately blending them all together. I call it the "swiss army car" approach where just like the knives, they produce a vehicle that can do many things but none of them exceptionally well. The Crossover utility vehicles are the worst offender in that.


Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
^ Exactly limegreen. Based on the mule spyshots, Porsche doesn't appear to be putting in a dash like the Ferrari or McLaren. More like they're putting in something akin to the Panamera's.

Personally, I'd prefer a digital dash, if it's a good one, but I think Porsche has to tread carefully, and in no way does anything Porsche seems to be doing with the 992 say pure sports car. If anything it looks more GT than the 991, inside and out.
This GT direction they are continuing in is also concerning because the 991 is almost too far in that direction already. I struggle to find the sports car in my 991 at times, it feels half as sporty as the 997 , 996 era. I'm going to guess that the 992 will only be quieter and more removed. I will never understand why the driving feel / experience decreases with each new model. This new 992 interior that is loaded with over complication, gimmicks and distractions certainly isn't a step towards improving that situation, replacing buttons with screens that make a " click " noise when pressed certainly has a way of draining the experience.
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:52 PM
  #175  
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But the 911 never was a "pure" sports car, it ultimately followed the same design principle as in the 356 and to an extent the Volkswagen. It always had a 2+2 seat configuration for the small family, a fairly upright and comfortable seating position, sizeable cargo space (with strapping something to the roof posing no issue) - and a durable drivetrain. The 911 was popular because it was sporty but remained practical and liveable and also could easily be adapted for competition on- or off-road.

Something like a half-digital dash does not suddenly make it not a pure sports car, it never was just a sports car. Porsche are just evolving the 911 with the times and the car will presumably remain true to the core concept like it always has.
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Old 10-10-2018, 08:11 PM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by JMartinni View Post
But the 911 never was a "pure" sports car, it ultimately followed the same design principle as in the 356 and to an extent the Volkswagen. It always had a 2+2 seat configuration for the small family, a fairly upright and comfortable seating position, sizeable cargo space (with strapping something to the roof posing no issue) - and a durable drivetrain. The 911 was popular because it was sporty but remained practical and liveable and also could easily be adapted for competition on- or off-road.

Something like a half-digital dash does not suddenly make it not a pure sports car, it never was just a sports car. Porsche are just evolving the 911 with the times and the car will presumably remain true to the core concept like it always has.
Maybe you should go back and read the comments that triggered my responses.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:21 PM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by JMartinni View Post
But the 911 never was a "pure" sports car, it ultimately followed the same design principle as in the 356 and to an extent the Volkswagen. It always had a 2+2 seat configuration for the small family, a fairly upright and comfortable seating position, sizeable cargo space (with strapping something to the roof posing no issue) - and a durable drivetrain. The 911 was popular because it was sporty but remained practical and liveable and also could easily be adapted for competition on- or off-road.

Something like a half-digital dash does not suddenly make it not a pure sports car, it never was just a sports car. Porsche are just evolving the 911 with the times and the car will presumably remain true to the core concept like it always has.
Agreed. There's an article in this month's Panorama magazine comparing the 356 to the MG TC of the same era. Even back then, the Porsche was a cut above the "pure" sports car.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:37 PM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by STG View Post
Porsche is building and designing cars for today's and tomorrow's buyer. They could care less about nostalgia. Technology and electronics are what buyers are wanting, especially in Porsche's # 1 sales market >> CHINA. The average buyer of these cars wants the latest and greatest. Doesn't always work in favor of the more traditional enthusiast who wants more simplicity and appreciates the driving experience first and foremost.
To me a good set of digital instruments is part of an excellent driving experience for an enthusiast. If you have PDK, you need shifting indicators and these are far more effective with a digital cluster, or even better a Head-up-display. You also need information like tire pressure and temperature, oil pressure, oil temperature, engine temperature, etc. A lot of us have the digital gauge in our 991s set for these things, but the fact that we can't have the oil and engine info at the same time as the tire info is a huge problem.

I would want a digital cluster which can simultaneously display:
- Shift indicator lights
- Tire pressure and temp
- Oil pressure and temp
- Engine temp
- Range to empty
- Map so I know what is coming up (ideally a Waze map so I can also hazards)
- RPM
- Speed
- Gear

The Lamborghini Aventador digital cluster offers this and it would be a great choice for the 992 to copy. So does the McLaren instrument cluster. And the Ferrari one comes close.

The way I see it nostalgia is for people who don't really take advantage of the performance fully but just want a luxury car that looks like a traditional 911. So innovation filters from race cars (which are 100% focused on the performance driver) to McLaren/Ferrari/Lamborghini which draw inspiration from race cars, to Porsche who draws inspiration from these. Take the mode wheel on the 991.2 wheel. That is an F1 idea, that Ferrari brought to sports cars, which Porsche then copied a few years later. Also paddles. If you remember Porsche initially resisted paddles and had those crappy tiptronic buttons. Then after Ferrari offered real paddles for a few years, Porsche got the hint.

Last edited by stealthpilot; 10-11-2018 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:48 PM
  #179  
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^^ some very good points. You're making me crave a Ferrari.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:20 AM
  #180  
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1st post here (long time member of Planet 9 - different user name)

Everyone has different wants, dislikes, and "red lines." The analogue tach and a manual transmission are musts for me. That's just me. What I've read about the 992 being push-button start really bothers me. If inserting a key and turning it isn't an option, I don't know if that in and of itself will be a deal breaker, but it will be close. (After 6 years in my 981S, I still smile every time I turn/click the key on or off, and shake my head when I push the stupid start buttons on my "lesser cars.") If there is an open cup holder anywhere, around the shifter, that alone could be a deal breaker. A note in the May 2018 All Stars article in Automobile Magazine about the Panamera 4S has me worried: "... the overreliance on touchscreens to the point of menu scrolling to adjust the HVAC vent position is downright silly. At least Porsche kept the tachometer analog." Can that possibly be true? Needing to scroll through a menu to adjust the vent position! If they do that on the 992, I'm 100% out. I've had a deposit down on a 992 GTS for about 4 months, but I'm really worried about the interior. I'm glad that no one has been able to actually see it yet. That tells me that it's still a work in progress and that the ugly "spy shots" and renderings are not that close to the final product.
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