Throttle response question.
10-02-2023, 04:04 PM
#16
Sounds like a throttle calibration issue. I recall driving basic rental cars that had extremely sensitive throttles, probably to give the illusion of more power taking off from a standstill
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MaxLTV (10-02-2023)
10-02-2023, 05:29 PM
#17
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I suspect the culprit here is not throttle response but throttle mapping, which is indeed more progressive on 992 Turbo, probably to account for a more powerful engine.
I had 991.1, 991.2 and 992 Turbo S, with lots of miles on each except 991.1, which I did not like enough to drive a lot. I drove them in parallel with daily-driving GT3/RS and racing a Radical with a 11K RPM engine with mechanically actuated individual throttle bodies, so throttle response as immediate as ICE engine can possibly produce. So I had pretty good benchmarks. 991.1 did not stay long precisely because of poor throttle response time. It was utterly unsatisfying for me in Normal - the revs were too low and shifting was too lazy, but even in other modes, the lag was annoying. 991.2 was much better, especially in sport plus, where it had almost rally-style anti-lag. 992 is even better generally, but with a couple of caveats:
1) the gearbox is slightly slower (bummer), so if adding throttle requires downshift, it may feel more sluggish. I wonder if PDK tune solves this. Otherwise, it's a real limitation;
2) boost threshold is higher in the revs, so it is indeed slower-responding in the 1.8K - 2.3K range. A downshift solves this.;
3) the pedal is calibrated differently, more linearly - the initial pedal input corresponds to smaller % of throttle opening. This is likely the culprit, especially for those coming from previous-gen 911 Turbos - the driver gives the amount of throttle they are used to, and the 992 responds with less throttle opening, so the driver needs to process what happened and give it more throttle, which takes time and creates the perception of sluggishness.
This is very noticeable when going from a sporty econo-car to Porsche - Hundai, Toyota, Ford and others calibrate throttle so that the first 20% of the pedal movement gives you 80% of power to make the car feel more powerful during a test drive (of course, the rest of the pedal motion then does nothing, and throttle is much harder to modulate, especially in the wet or snow). Porsche does not do that, so jumping from a Veloster or Sonata to 911, 911 will feed very sluggish for the first few moments or days, depending on how flexible the driver is.
992 also has annoying software thing where if you floor it in lower gear with the front wheels turned, it delays/smoothes power delivery even when it has no chance of breaking traction. My Cayenne does that too, even more so, and even GT3 has a bit of that. I find it very annoying. It feels like a very long turbo lag, but it happens on NA engines as well.
TL;DR just push the throttle more decisively to account for more progressive throttle mapping, and in almost every scenario it will have better throttle response than both 991.1 and 991.2.
I had 991.1, 991.2 and 992 Turbo S, with lots of miles on each except 991.1, which I did not like enough to drive a lot. I drove them in parallel with daily-driving GT3/RS and racing a Radical with a 11K RPM engine with mechanically actuated individual throttle bodies, so throttle response as immediate as ICE engine can possibly produce. So I had pretty good benchmarks. 991.1 did not stay long precisely because of poor throttle response time. It was utterly unsatisfying for me in Normal - the revs were too low and shifting was too lazy, but even in other modes, the lag was annoying. 991.2 was much better, especially in sport plus, where it had almost rally-style anti-lag. 992 is even better generally, but with a couple of caveats:
1) the gearbox is slightly slower (bummer), so if adding throttle requires downshift, it may feel more sluggish. I wonder if PDK tune solves this. Otherwise, it's a real limitation;
2) boost threshold is higher in the revs, so it is indeed slower-responding in the 1.8K - 2.3K range. A downshift solves this.;
3) the pedal is calibrated differently, more linearly - the initial pedal input corresponds to smaller % of throttle opening. This is likely the culprit, especially for those coming from previous-gen 911 Turbos - the driver gives the amount of throttle they are used to, and the 992 responds with less throttle opening, so the driver needs to process what happened and give it more throttle, which takes time and creates the perception of sluggishness.
This is very noticeable when going from a sporty econo-car to Porsche - Hundai, Toyota, Ford and others calibrate throttle so that the first 20% of the pedal movement gives you 80% of power to make the car feel more powerful during a test drive (of course, the rest of the pedal motion then does nothing, and throttle is much harder to modulate, especially in the wet or snow). Porsche does not do that, so jumping from a Veloster or Sonata to 911, 911 will feed very sluggish for the first few moments or days, depending on how flexible the driver is.
992 also has annoying software thing where if you floor it in lower gear with the front wheels turned, it delays/smoothes power delivery even when it has no chance of breaking traction. My Cayenne does that too, even more so, and even GT3 has a bit of that. I find it very annoying. It feels like a very long turbo lag, but it happens on NA engines as well.
TL;DR just push the throttle more decisively to account for more progressive throttle mapping, and in almost every scenario it will have better throttle response than both 991.1 and 991.2.
Last edited by MaxLTV; 10-02-2023 at 05:31 PM.
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10-02-2023, 10:21 PM
#18
The real underrated magic of the TTS is in the handling and steering, which are much better than the previous gen. The steering approaches GT3 quality. That's really where the car shines.
10-02-2023, 11:59 PM
#19
Drifting
Thread Starter
I've mentioned it in other threads, but no one really quite understood what I was getting at (or agreed). I don't think it's just the progressive throttle map - it's more like nothing happens for a split second when you hit the throttle. I also recall the 991.2 feeling like it had more mid-range punch than the 992, but I can't be sure about that. The 992 doesn't really feel much faster than the 991.2, overall.
The real underrated magic of the TTS is in the handling and steering, which are much better than the previous gen. The steering approaches GT3 quality. That's really where the car shines.
The real underrated magic of the TTS is in the handling and steering, which are much better than the previous gen. The steering approaches GT3 quality. That's really where the car shines.
10-03-2023, 10:50 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
I put "Pedal Commander" on my Macan GTS. Its a $200 or so electronic device that's connected to the gas pedal's wiring (Very easy install) and you can then via you iphone adjust the sensitivity of the pedal's response. My in the Macan group have installed it and love it. I would give them a call and see if they have one for the TTS. BTW, my 992 TTS pedal response in sport and sport+ modes seems fine but its my first 911 so I have nothing to compare to.