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M-Engineering: PTME 1100 Turbo Testing and Release!
So over the past couple of months we have been testing the new PTME1100 turbo’s from Pure Turbos on our shop car. This turbo is a custom turbo and larger than the standard one they sell. This turbo is only available through us (M-Engineering) and as such, we spent a lot of time to really push not only the turbos, but the engine and the transmission of the car. We wanted to see if during running the car we would find a weakness in either the engine block, or the transmission such as the clutches. We would rather we did this on our own shop car than a customer’s. Along with that we outfitted it with sensors so that we could see some data from different exhaust combinations and such and run a high amount of boost so we could also measure EMAP. EMAP is exhaust manifold pressure, and we measure this as it’s a great way for us to tell not only a turbo’s efficiency but also to measure the volumetric efficiency of the engine as we can create a ratio of the boost pressure in the intake manifold versus the amount of pressure that is being trapped in the exhaust. This is important as the higher the ratio the worse for the car it is, especially with a VTG turbo as they are more prone to damage from high EMAP and turbo speed.
So, to start out with, we began tuning the first set of PTME’s in April or so and wanted to see what they could do. We also outfitted the car with our new and first of its kind in the 992 world, upgraded 4 bar MAP sensors. Now this is different because the stock map sensors could only read to around 3300hPa or so, and we wanted to run more boost than that. Now starting with the 991.2 cars they switched to what is called a SENT MAP sensor. This differs from traditional MAP sensors as SENT stands for Single Edge Nibble Transmission. I can get in depth with this but what manufacturers have started to do is to send sensor data in small sizes on CAN BUS, as it’s a more efficient way to send a lot of different sensor values than a traditional 0-5v sensor. This also makes it hard as they don’t make aftermarket ones, till now. We didn’t want to do what most have done in the past and just run a lot of boost and max the sensor out as this is not a good calibration tactic as the ECU has no idea how much boost pressure the car is making so you can lose control and most importantly, safety. So now we can run more boost safely as the ECU is able to read up to 4 bar of boost pressure, thus the ECU can achieve it’s target and still have full control. That being said, the 4 bar sensors cannot be run without our ECU calibration as they will not work without changes in the data. All of this is possible with M-Tuner which is the premier tuning suite for the 992 Carrera and Turbo platform. We have a custom tuning software program called M-Composer that allows us to fine tune these cars and add things like these aftermarket sensors and scale correctly.
So here you can see a bit of data:
What you are looking at here is a pull with the MAP sensor data. This is response time in 5th gear on the hub dyno. On the street it’s a bit quicker, but response on these turbos is really good. This is making 1.9bar of boost.
Next you can see how much boost we are running up top and also can see that we are reading pressure beyond the stock sensors:
This is 2.5bar gauge. Yes, that is a lot of boost! We went even higher than this in testing but we also didn’t see any power gain so we turned it down. But it’s great to see what the stock engine is capable of. This is also on the stock transmission and you will notice no slip. That is because this also has our 992 Turbo S PDK flash that we developed. It is pretty crazy what these cars are capable of handling power-wise on stock components. We have probably 150 dyno runs, 70 passes on track, 80 passes on the street and never broke a factory component. Really amazing engineering.
Here is a bit of EMAP data. This is from a run with more boost pressure. This actually changed a lot based on the exhaust systems we used and some other components. So we really know what setups work and what don’t, but we will do another write up on all of that data later. Getting this data is only possible with custom sensors installed on the exhaust system and aftermarket software to be able to make sense of the data.
This is the EMAP of the car with a higher boost target. This gives us a ratio of 1.57:1 or so. The ideal target is 1:1 but that is not usually possible on stock frame turbos especially trying to make power. This ratio is not actually bad at all! In the 997.1 on the stock turbo with ethanol we have seen EMAP ratios closer to 3:1 in some cars when they try to run a lot of boost!
What does all of this really mean? What we wanted to do was make sure that the turbos can be reliable. Pure Turbo is an excellent partner as we did have a set of turbos fail in testing, and it wasn’t due to anything either of us did, it was a factory part that melted as it was made of plastic. They were quick to find the issue and upgrade and they have been trouble free since! We want to make sure that not only do the turbos work and make power, we want them to be reliable and be a good daily use turbo. They have proven to be outstanding!
Ok so I know some folks will skip past all of the stuff I said above and I promise I am trying to keep this as non-nerd-ish as I can so let’s move on to the parts that most people want to see. Power and performance.
This is the power figure that we settled at for the calibration. This is a great number for a stock motor and stock transmission car. Now I will also say this—most hub dynos read higher than say a chassis dyno like a Dyno Jet. For whatever reason, ours reads basically identical to a Dyno Jet. We have tuned on lots of Mainlines all over the world and they usually always read higher, but for whatever reason ours does not read as high. So this 920whp is a good expectation of what the car will make with proper parts and calibration on a Dyno Jet. We can go higher (and did) but we left it here as there is only so much power you can reliably make on stock components. While we don’t know what the stock engine limit is I would imagine it is a bit beyond this. In the 991.2 Turbo, if the stock engine gets to 1000whp it is not long for this world. This kit is also nice as the torque is manageable and not rod bending.
With the help of Champion Motorsports we did have them borescope the motor and check it out after all of this testing just to be sure that everything looked good internally, and it was great!
So we have since been doing some real world testing. This time we wanted to see how the car would work in the middle of summer in South Florida. We did a test on the streets of “Mexico” to see what it would do in a real world scenario. We will take it to a track in good weather to shoot for hopefully an 8 but this is a great indication of what the car is capable of on the street.
These numbers in this weather and non prepped road surface is really great! Taking data from other 8 second cars we have done, with a good launch and cooler temps 8’s are very much possible!
This kit is now available through us and our dealers!
For questions, please contact info@m-engineering.us or 754.200.1123 for our FL office and dyno facility and 954.444.2150 for the AZ office.
Wow
is that race fuel no meth?
100-200kmh would be 3.7-3.8?
This is MS109 + Meth. Power gains and times would be about the same with 93. You get all the octane and cooling you need with meth so that you can run full timing and boost, we just happened to have some MS109 we decided to use for testing.
100-200kmh was a 3.96. Again this was an unprepped surface in just about the muggiest conditions you can think of haha.
-Charles@M
Last edited by M Engineering; 07-14-2022 at 06:32 PM.
This is MS109 + Meth. Power gains and times would be about the same with 93. You get all the octane and cooling you need with meth so that you can run full timing and boost, we just happened to have some MS109 we decided to use for testing.
100-200kmh was a 3.96. Again this was an unprepped surface in just about the muggiest conditions you can think of haha.
-Charles@M
You mean the power about same with pump + meth vs racegas + meth?
I read in another thread that same turbos made 800whp on pumpgas
You mean the power about same with pump + meth vs racegas + meth?
I read in another thread that same turbos made 800whp on pumpgas
You are mistaken, those would have been a different set of turbos. These are PTME1100 turbos which are brand new and have only been installed and tested on our shop car so far. They are for sale now to the public though after all of our testing! We were able to make well in excess of 920whp on these on our Mainline Hub Dyno with meth spraying.
Pump + meth and racegas + meth will be similar power. At WOT with meth spraying you'll get a ton of octane and cool IAT's to run full boost and timing.
For those that already have the smaller Pure Turbos on their 992 Turbo, we have an upgrade trade-up program to move up to the PTME1100. You can view this here.
Great works guys! That's a lot of power and a blistering fast car, we are happy to have been a part of it and look forward to where things go from here
Regards,
John Gaydos
__________________ SOUL PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS Quality Exhaust Solutions, Fair Pricing, and Outstanding Service
John Gaydos- Owner, Performance Specialist
Cell - (484) 883-6197 johng@soulpp.com
Is there a thread with some data on what stage 1 achieves? Just tune and nothing else in terms of 60-130 and 1/4 mile? And perhaps same question for tune and 200 cell catted pipes?
I wanted to bounce back to this thread and show y'all some further data and information regarding exhaust systems. If you recall, we compiled a bunch of EMAP data (exhaust manifold pressure) using an aftermarket auxiliary sensor on the headers to measure pressure on the exhaust side. Higher EMAP is bad and puts stress on the turbo and results in huge power losses. We found that the stock headers, just like the 991 and 997.2, make the biggest power on these cars, even in Stage 4 configurations with big turbos. "Upgrading" to aftermarket headers on this platform has proven to be a large loss.
Below is a dyno plot of a 992 Turbo brought to us that has upgraded turbos, on 93. The blue line represents when this car had "upgraded" headers, and an upgraded overseas exhaust. I won't mention this specific name of this exhaust, but they are the same ones that are made in bulk in China or Taiwan and usually look really fancy. Generally their restrictive valving also interrupts airflow as well. They are all hat, no cattle.
It was a quick and obvious decision that they needed change systems immediately. We advised returning back to stock headers and utilizing a @Soul Performance full 3" valve-less system. This is the red line on the graph. The power pickup from only an exhaust change was huge...This comparison is strictly with the before/after of the exhaust and no calibration edit. With further custom tuning you can smooth out and fill in the power curve even more.
Long story short: Stay away from "upgraded" headers, and stay away from the overseas flashy exhausts.
So over the past couple of months we have been testing the new PTME1100 turbo’s from Pure Turbos on our shop car. This turbo is a custom turbo and larger than the standard one they sell. This turbo is only available through us (M-Engineering) and as such, we spent a lot of time to really push not only the turbos, but the engine and the transmission of the car. We wanted to see if during running the car we would find a weakness in either the engine block, or the transmission such as the clutches. We would rather we did this on our own shop car than a customer’s. Along with that we outfitted it with sensors so that we could see some data from different exhaust combinations and such and run a high amount of boost so we could also measure EMAP. EMAP is exhaust manifold pressure, and we measure this as it’s a great way for us to tell not only a turbo’s efficiency but also to measure the volumetric efficiency of the engine as we can create a ratio of the boost pressure in the intake manifold versus the amount of pressure that is being trapped in the exhaust. This is important as the higher the ratio the worse for the car it is, especially with a VTG turbo as they are more prone to damage from high EMAP and turbo speed.
So, to start out with, we began tuning the first set of PTME’s in April or so and wanted to see what they could do. We also outfitted the car with our new and first of its kind in the 992 world, upgraded 4 bar MAP sensors. Now this is different because the stock map sensors could only read to around 3300hPa or so, and we wanted to run more boost than that. Now starting with the 991.2 cars they switched to what is called a SENT MAP sensor. This differs from traditional MAP sensors as SENT stands for Single Edge Nibble Transmission. I can get in depth with this but what manufacturers have started to do is to send sensor data in small sizes on CAN BUS, as it’s a more efficient way to send a lot of different sensor values than a traditional 0-5v sensor. This also makes it hard as they don’t make aftermarket ones, till now. We didn’t want to do what most have done in the past and just run a lot of boost and max the sensor out as this is not a good calibration tactic as the ECU has no idea how much boost pressure the car is making so you can lose control and most importantly, safety. So now we can run more boost safely as the ECU is able to read up to 4 bar of boost pressure, thus the ECU can achieve it’s target and still have full control. That being said, the 4 bar sensors cannot be run without our ECU calibration as they will not work without changes in the data. All of this is possible with M-Tuner which is the premier tuning suite for the 992 Carrera and Turbo platform. We have a custom tuning software program called M-Composer that allows us to fine tune these cars and add things like these aftermarket sensors and scale correctly.
So here you can see a bit of data:
What you are looking at here is a pull with the MAP sensor data. This is response time in 5th gear on the hub dyno. On the street it’s a bit quicker, but response on these turbos is really good. This is making 1.9bar of boost.
Next you can see how much boost we are running up top and also can see that we are reading pressure beyond the stock sensors:
This is 2.5bar gauge. Yes, that is a lot of boost! We went even higher than this in testing but we also didn’t see any power gain so we turned it down. But it’s great to see what the stock engine is capable of. This is also on the stock transmission and you will notice no slip. That is because this also has our 992 Turbo S PDK flash that we developed. It is pretty crazy what these cars are capable of handling power-wise on stock components. We have probably 150 dyno runs, 70 passes on track, 80 passes on the street and never broke a factory component. Really amazing engineering.
Here is a bit of EMAP data. This is from a run with more boost pressure. This actually changed a lot based on the exhaust systems we used and some other components. So we really know what setups work and what don’t, but we will do another write up on all of that data later. Getting this data is only possible with custom sensors installed on the exhaust system and aftermarket software to be able to make sense of the data.
This is the EMAP of the car with a higher boost target. This gives us a ratio of 1.57:1 or so. The ideal target is 1:1 but that is not usually possible on stock frame turbos especially trying to make power. This ratio is not actually bad at all! In the 997.1 on the stock turbo with ethanol we have seen EMAP ratios closer to 3:1 in some cars when they try to run a lot of boost!
What does all of this really mean? What we wanted to do was make sure that the turbos can be reliable. Pure Turbo is an excellent partner as we did have a set of turbos fail in testing, and it wasn’t due to anything either of us did, it was a factory part that melted as it was made of plastic. They were quick to find the issue and upgrade and they have been trouble free since! We want to make sure that not only do the turbos work and make power, we want them to be reliable and be a good daily use turbo. They have proven to be outstanding!
Ok so I know some folks will skip past all of the stuff I said above and I promise I am trying to keep this as non-nerd-ish as I can so let’s move on to the parts that most people want to see. Power and performance.
This is the power figure that we settled at for the calibration. This is a great number for a stock motor and stock transmission car. Now I will also say this—most hub dynos read higher than say a chassis dyno like a Dyno Jet. For whatever reason, ours reads basically identical to a Dyno Jet. We have tuned on lots of Mainlines all over the world and they usually always read higher, but for whatever reason ours does not read as high. So this 920whp is a good expectation of what the car will make with proper parts and calibration on a Dyno Jet. We can go higher (and did) but we left it here as there is only so much power you can reliably make on stock components. While we don’t know what the stock engine limit is I would imagine it is a bit beyond this. In the 991.2 Turbo, if the stock engine gets to 1000whp it is not long for this world. This kit is also nice as the torque is manageable and not rod bending.
With the help of Champion Motorsports we did have them borescope the motor and check it out after all of this testing just to be sure that everything looked good internally, and it was great!
So we have since been doing some real world testing. This time we wanted to see how the car would work in the middle of summer in South Florida. We did a test on the streets of “Mexico” to see what it would do in a real world scenario. We will take it to a track in good weather to shoot for hopefully an 8 but this is a great indication of what the car is capable of on the street.
These numbers in this weather and non prepped road surface is really great! Taking data from other 8 second cars we have done, with a good launch and cooler temps 8’s are very much possible!
This kit is now available through us and our dealers!
For questions, please contact info@m-engineering.us or 754.200.1123 for our FL office and dyno facility and 954.444.2150 for the AZ office.
-Mitch
900 plus whp, now we're getting somewhere, because 800 whp feels like stock now Still going have to build a trans and axles if it's going to last, at least the way I drive
07-14-2022, 05:32 PM
M-Engineering: PTME 1100 Turbo Testing and Release!
Still going have to build a trans and axles if it's going to last, at least the way I drive
