Originally Posted by disden

The math is simple. MSRP for mine is $305k, and it’s already built. no watch no trade in, ect ect. Unfortunately the only additional cost is the shake down by Porsche for a 12 month lease, which really amounts to about $25k in lease interest to Porsche, as the rest of the lease payment pays down the end of lease purchase residual. the $70-80k you keep mentioning as a lease cost is not 100% interest, for example my purchase price after the 12 month lease is $263k.

Your continued trashing of the ST is now bordering on mental derangement. I know you have left the winged world and bought a Touring so you are a bit biased, but what makes you honestly believe people will regret selling their Touring for the S/T? Based upon what? Based upon your extensive seat time in both? Numerous reviews have directly compared the cars back to back and have universally stated that the S/T is 100% a more dynamic, emptional and frankly a better car. Nowhere is it mentioned the Touring is a bad car, quite the opposite. The end statement is always that the Touring is an amazing unbelievable car that anyone should be thrilled to own, but the S/T with the changes Porsche has made is simply better. It’s therefor up to the buyers to decide if the cost difference, especially when considering the ADM most people are being forced to pay, is worth it.

I would not be buying my S/T if an ADM was attached. Also, I would not be buying it if Porche didn’t make the changes in ride quality and steering input. I absolutely hated my 992 GT3 on the street, it was a jittery tramlining handful on any pavement that was not perfectly racetrack smooth. When I pick up my S/T in a few months I will honestly give my opinions of the car, whether I like it or not. But I won’t sit here and say it’s awful before driving it as that’s the epitome of being self serving and disingenuous.

Originally Posted by NRAzar

Very good production quality. They have been improving video-upon-video, and they are one of the few that are not stagnated like other channels such as Doug DeMuro or TheStraightPipes.

Originally Posted by disden

The math is simple. MSRP for mine is $305k, and it’s already built. no watch no trade in, ect ect. Unfortunately the only additional cost is the shake down by Porsche for a 12 month lease, which really amounts to about $25k in lease interest to Porsche, as the rest of the lease payment pays down the end of lease purchase residual. the $70-80k you keep mentioning as a lease cost is not 100% interest, for example my purchase price after the 12 month lease is $263k.

Your continued trashing of the ST is now bordering on mental derangement. I know you have left the winged world and bought a Touring so you are a bit biased, but what makes you honestly believe people will regret selling their Touring for the S/T? Based upon what? Based upon your extensive seat time in both? Numerous reviews have directly compared the cars back to back and have universally stated that the S/T is 100% a more dynamic, emptional and frankly a better car. Nowhere is it mentioned the Touring is a bad car, quite the opposite. The end statement is always that the Touring is an amazing unbelievable car that anyone should be thrilled to own, but the S/T with the changes Porsche has made is simply better. It’s therefor up to the buyers to decide if the cost difference, especially when considering the ADM most people are being forced to pay, is worth it.

I would not be buying my S/T if an ADM was attached. Also, I would not be buying it if Porche didn’t make the changes in ride quality and steering input. I absolutely hated my 992 GT3 on the street, it was a jittery tramlining handful on any pavement that was not perfectly racetrack smooth. When I pick up my S/T in a few months I will honestly give my opinions of the car, whether I like it or not. But I won’t sit here and say it’s awful before driving it as that’s the epitome of being self serving and disingenuous.

Originally Posted by PTS

My math shows your S/T is the same price as his Touring

Originally Posted by PTS

The day I am only able to assess cars for their potential ROI is the day I will stop buying cars. Must be sad for that to be your only lens. The mental gymnastics you've done to justify a $330k+ Touring yet talk down on the ST is nothing short of amazing. "Lose" still has 1 "o"

Originally Posted by supershaft

just stop responding to his nonsense. Constantly bringing up money or how money doesn’t matter is low class. And that’s if he’s making sense the other half of the time lmao
hes only here because of some yt car reviews told him the 992 is amazing. The rest of us who have pined for these cars as preteens don’t act like that

Originally Posted by disden

it’s amazing how your bias toward hating a car you have never driven continues to shade your interpretation. His discussion about the S/T being a base model 911 is about what he WISHES a base 911 could be, meaning a lightweight stripped down bare bones car that is accessible for all to buy. A car that provides a pure emotional driving experience. Meaning he would love to have a cheap 911 made of carbon fiber body panels, Mag wheels, PCCBs, and a Motorsports derived engine paired with a single mass flywheel. Who wouldn’t want all that as a base model! Problem is all that stuff is expensive, and hence why the car is expensive. What makes me chuckle concerning your hatred however is that my S/T at MSRP is probably pretty much the same price as your recently ordered Touring which you paid a hefty ADM. Love it

Originally Posted by Justaroofer

I don't think your math is mathing. You're a VIP? If so great! Otherwise, you're spending 70-80k over the ST minimum. Yes larger value after the first year, and assuming yours is PTS even greater. My Touring I have no shame in saying is 320k. 70k over and Ben literally sent me 2-3 texts tops and money well earned. I broke no sweat and made little to no efforts to secure the spot and honestly the ADM to me is literally less than what I received back in manufacturer rebates last year so oh well.

Now the average ST in the US will be 1.75-2x MSRP plus lease. That's 600-650k all in. Will the value hold, likely yes after the end of the 12 months and greater for PTS. Then the actual market Value will speak which still to be 200k Over sticker if trends match the R... after 5+ years.

The Touring will have a sharper driving dynamic, and dare I say it some may regret going to the ST based on this past review.

At the end of the day factoring MSRP scale I'll maybe loose 30-40k within the first couple years then value will flatline and rebound as inflation creeps.

The best part, the Touring delivery got bumped ahead another 10 days yesterday. Meanwhile STs and my PTS 3RS are sitting in a perpetual flying hold pattern with month after month delays hitting.

I like Mullets yes, just not in the form of a 600k car.

Originally Posted by rickman_fr

Do you really believe your musings that suggest an S/T owner might regret not having bought a Touring, which is simply a GT3 without a wing?

Originally Posted by Justaroofer

No it's just stating those that had Touring prior may miss characteristics of the Touring such as sharper driving and RWS. Everyone is so caught up on the SMFW and 90lbs of weight loss. I'm sorry, the sacrifices of weight aren't always justified when you seek a connected car.... and the first point of connection being the wheel has a slower less engaging steering rack. Sure the suspension has been "tuned" but we're literally talking about algorithms taken from the lowest setting of the 3rs(prove me wrong, please). I love they lowered the gear ratio and the shifter is shorter. Even in the 4RS the height of the shift **** is frankly annoying. Oddly enough the fanatics of that car seem to also love the ST for the same reason... the sounds within the cabin.

Now I'm no brand loyalist, but just based on the fact I'm a car guy I appreciate all things mechanical. I suppose my tastes just reside closer to the TH guys. Just note not their lack of enthusiasm for the ST as compared to both these 2 videos. Just saying.

https://youtu.be/7xf35zoQcC4?si=J-mhpERJl3c6CeNe

https://youtu.be/eITIfzbIt28?si=JGRAASh7Xr7JVTdv

Originally Posted by disden

TH was the first and only review anywhere on the planet that didn’t mention the S/T had probably the greatest EPAS ever in a production car and raved about the steering being as good or close to as good as the 997 RS. So I am baffled once again how you make assumptions and are claiming the steering on the ST is sloppy and not direct, because again YOU HAVE NOT DRIVEN IT! Good lord this is getting old

Originally Posted by Justaroofer

Listen. Do me a favor. Find another channel that actually abuses the cars on either the road or a "proving grounds" of sorts. Please, just shine the light. I'm frankly more exhausted on brown nosing vloggers that rave over vehicles that lack true substance. Again, soft suspension and not pin point accurate steering due to steer by wire... as are all modern cars. The ST was designed to be tamed down and that's OK. Dare I say it though.... the GT4RS may prove to be the real winner of the drivers car for the modern Porsche?! And I've been harsh on that too.... as have many others.

Originally Posted by disden

steer by wire?!? Ok, enough said. Good day sir.