Have any of you tried a 992 GT3 on track with both PCCB and iron brakes? Is there a noticeable difference in handling of the car (due to less unsprung mass)?

 

I have a friend who had PCCB and swapped for ap racing discs and Feredo I think, and he said pccb are a little bit better.

 

age old debate - yeah PCCB's are better in terms of weight and brake fade, but brake fade isn't really an issue unitl you're on track for more than 25 minutes (uncommon for street cars in HPDE style events)…

the only reason not to run PCCB's is: cost to replace rotors when they wear out, and fewer choices in brake pad material

based on experience from my 991.2 GT3 - you can easily achieve 4 brake swaps on one set of PCCB rotors before needing to swap the rotors due to wear - I believe you could get much more rotor life if swap pads around 40-50% mark…

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...3-991-2-a.html

a full set of "new" rotors for PCCB's is north of $25k all in parts only costs (tax and shipping not included)

so while they last a long time - once the bill comes due it's significant.

As to if you can tell the difference in unsprung mass - well some say yes and I do not believe they are lying, but honestly I can't believe it's that much different given other factors.

Many many people who track their vehicles choose to take off the PCCB's and put on excellent cast-iron/steel brake rotors to control the shock/awe of a PCCB brake job. But return the vehicle to it's factory spec with pristine unused PCCB's factory rotors when they move on to their next track car.

 

I am sure for 90%+ of drivers they will not be able to tell the difference for the unsprung difference between iron and PCCB's. The drivers, unless you are a pro, are nowhere near the capabilities of the car.
It is easy to drive the car at 6 tenths and be fast but getting towards 8 or 9th tenths is a different story and requires skill beyond most drivers. In summary, from a cost perspective switch to irons and you will not see any differences.

 

I can drive 9 tenths on the track. I don’t get close to that on the road.

When I compared the 991.1 GT3 back to back on track with PCCB vs irons, I thought the handling and brake feel of the PCCB car were substantially better. I’m wondering if anyone has done this comparison for the 992 GT3.

 

I will never track a Porsche without PCCB's (or aftermarket ceramic rotors)

It's pay to play for sure.

 

Oh no, now you've gotten me thinking that I should put PCCB on the 992 GT3 ...

 

It's only money.

Not being facetious.

It really is only money.

 

100% Only money. They last a little longer, but you will be changing them at some point. They eats pads faster as well.

 

I have seat time on both last season. I am in the camp along with the data that there is no measurable performance difference at the amateur level. My money where my mouth is, I spec'd iron on my current winged car. I may look at the AP kit next. Personally I would rather upgrade to a track focused ceramic kit than pay the Porsche premium.
But the PCCB I compare to are way less dusty (less not no) and if you cant live without those yellow rotors...

@ipse dixit
Would love to hear your reasoning (and respect your opinion). A lot of people I interact with at club level are in the indifferent camp.
I am pushing my own car way harder this year. Yesterday i had my first instance of some light brake fade. It wasn't a concern at all - but I was chasing best laps and decided to let it go for the last clean lap of the session.
Sincerely curious to hear your take - at the risk of starting a lot of nonsense. Will help me think about what I do over the winter.

 

You should, DEFINITELY if you can get them. I ordered my 2018 GT3 w/steel brakes, and they were FINE....Until I ordered my GT2RS and Speedster, which both have PCCB's. Then, I cheaped out, and ordered my 992GT3 w Steel brakes....and I regret it. Once you've had PCCB's for a while, the steel brakes just feel......mushy. I thought that your build was locked tho?

 

I find the new 992 Iron brakes to be fantastic when you ditch the stock pads. Using RE10's and the braking is great as well as incredible longevity and lack of surface cracks on the new dimpled rotors. Significantly better than Iron setup on 991.2

 

This is my thought on PCCBs, or aftermarket ceramic rotors.

We are all driving/tracking essentially 200k cars. And, if you are, then your track budget should be commensurate.

Are PCCBs more expensive long term than OEM irons? Yes, for sure.

Are PCCBs significantly more expensive long term OEM irons? Not so sure.

The key to maintaining the durability and lifespan of the PCCBs (on the 991 and 992 cars) is to regularly swap pads, and to swap them right when they are less than 50%. Do this and you'll get at least 3, if not 4 or 5, pad swaps. Which in the long run, makes PCCBs near price parity with iron rotors.

Based on the above (swapping pads at around 45%) and swapping 3-4 times, I can easily get 30 full track days, if not more.

Now think about how much one is spending on tires for 30 full track days? One could be putting in new set of tires at approx 2500/set of Cup2s every time you swap out pads. 4 sets of pads, 4 sets of tires, that 's 10k in tires alone. And we're ok with that even though tires alone would be 1/2 of the cost of OEM replacement PCCB rotors.

Maybe you (not you specifically, but you generically) are still not convinced based on cost alone then there's the performance issue. I don't care what anyone says, but for me the PCCBs do feel significantly different than OEM irons. I had the same car (991 GT3), one with OEM irons and one with PCCBs, on the same track (Thermal) on the same day, and nearly the same time of day (9:30 and 10 a.m.) and just from my personal experience the GT3 with PCCBs handled and drove significantly better. Was the braking better? Not necessarily, but the handling, turn-in and more importantly the confidence it inspired in me that there would be no brake fade coming down a straight at 100+ ... the brakes would work as hoped and intended. That alone is worth the price of admission of PCCBs in my opinion. Was it placebo? Maybe, but again just the fact that it made me more confident was enough.

TL;DR. PCCBs when pads are changed at or just below 50% are no more expensive than OEM iron rotors and performance on track, real or imagined, are significantly better than OEM iron rotors.

So that's my 2 cents.

Others can disagree, which is fine, not here to argue.

Hope that answers your question.

 

I had PCCB on a 2016 GT4 mainly used on track. They felt great, and they lasted 50 days with a fair amount of pad swaps.

Replacement cost was $27k and I opted for steel AP rotors. I then sold the car for about as much as it originally cost and I bought a GT4 Clubsport for track.

The brake system plus 18" racing slicks on the GT4CS were mind blowing - way better than the PCCB on the street car. Cost is then moved to tires.
Eventually sold the CS for $135k while original all-in cost was about $160k if I recall correctly.

Not sure that helps the person that tracks a 992GT3 but going along with ipse dixit's logic about cost, the attractiveness of a clubsport is very high and the cost is reasonable.
I felt safer in the CS as well.

 

Thank you...well said. Pretty much agree with you in all regards.

I'm on this wavelength. I'm thinking maybe Ginetta, Radical, or Rush...and a Targa for cruisng around