n d

I had f80 m3 cs and m2 cs I just picked up the new m3 and I’m in shock how much l love driving this car….. honestly it’s my favorite m car I have ever owned ….

C.J. Ichiban

I have the M5 CS, RS6, CSL, R8 rwd and GT3 Touring.

the CSL is easily the most rowdy. it's not friendly- in basic m1 mode with TC set to dynamic it wants to really get yaw angle. in m2 mode with TC off it's either spinning tires or drifting at street speeds. it's foolish and just what I wanted. the steering is great. ceramics are very good. noise is a little gurgley and not romantic. I love the seats. unlike my old M4 GTS its not a styrofoam interior. someone not looking for big oversteer (i think its fun) will hate it. its more like a GT500. it will, with TC off, spin the tires all the way to 80-100mph. ride quality similar to 992 GT3 in normal mode and GT3RS 991.2 in stiff mode.

the M5 CS is the best sedan I've ever had- I compare it to a 675LT with four doors. better daily then a 992 TT. put an akrapovic exhaust on and it's way raspier and crazy loud. I love it.

the R8 (rwd) and the CSL are a really cool pair. both are very underlooked for "sub GT3" prices. mine stickered around 175k. it's manners are fantastic. ride quality is way better than the 911. - in part because of weight. if someone wanted a PDK touring and did not get allocated one. I'd recommend saving the money and getting this. I think the noise needs a little shove in the lambo direction but its very stout and the car sounds awesome doing all the fast daily driver and canyon carving. but to emphasize again with more ride quality vs GT3.

RS6 is my de facto SUV. dogs in the car, stroller in the roof box/ yuppie coffin. better ride quality vs M5 CS, and better stereo. standard dad mobile? no way. 600HP and a sleeper? elegant but stands out more for most people.

vcp13

@C.J. Ichiban where do these cars slot into your hot list / not list for 2023?

jo_ker

if turbo is no down side. the G80 M3/4 Gen are superb cars.

money wise the CSL is way to expansive. it is just special because numbered.
better to buy regular M model with 4 seats (or M3 touring) + suspension and power mod.
a not modified M car is no real M car

E46CSL was cool because 4 seats.
look at the M4CSL back shelf - it has still the handles to fold down the rear seats... thats ridiculous for all the marketing blabla and price point

jo_ker

in porsche language the M4 CSL is the 996 GT3 RS
if we compare with regular M3/M4 and 996 GT3

the only real point why the "marginal better" version - is double the price - is because its limited.

jo_ker

what i want to express is: that no real driver will say: I drive 996 GT3 RS because its better than 996 GT3.

if you can efford a M4CSL (and you don´t neet space and/or 4 seats) buy it.
but more clever is a M3, or M3 touring.
and as soon you do 3 mods for total +10k its even better and faster.

Dr.Bill

Strange comparison.
A neutered sports car vs an ugly coupe?

groundhog

Really don't know what to say to this commentary - other than that you must own a dealership. To put it bluntly the CSL is both poor round a track and on the street compared to anything else in its price bracket. From a design point of view you can't polish a turd - well, except if you're a dealer in the US.

richk

You clearly have never been in a car with CJ...I did a hot lap with him in a 675LT @ Buttonwillow.

The man can flat out wheel a car.

I also am a fan of the new m cars...I think they are a good value.

groundhog

lol OK - plenty of people can wheel a car - CJ is a car dealer.

And you still can’t polish a turd

richk

I guess you can't polish a turd...

And yes CJ is a dealer.

I have bought multiple P cars(at MSRP) from CJ. He is a breath of fresh air and truly an enthusiast.

fastmd

RL seems to have the most hate of any car forum lately. Don’t understand. If someone doesn’t like a car what’s the big deal?

C.J. Ichiban

groundhog is apparently offended that I'm a dealer, or own a lot of cars.

I just provided actual driving impressions...which, was the topic of the thread...in the driver focused subforum of GT cars...Driving impressions are a lot more important than discussing looks, even stevie wonder has an opinion about bmw grilles. this isn't a watch forum for aesthetics is it?

I'm not here for that- I want to know how a car drives. how it breaks traction, etc. how does it steer vs XYZ car from before greta thunberg.

what I do think is valuable commentary: the "just tune it / mod it to get xyz". also in regard to the M3, why we don't get wagon version in USA is disheartening.


the real question that provokes is the houdini's wand paradox. are the mods the real thing or is the base car the real thing? after all, the 992 has the most common parts and configurations across models now vs 997 or 991.

as discussed in many threads- most people did not get an allocation for GT3 or Gt3RS. they have cash in hand and want to scratch the itch. what do they do? another brand? cpo?

ParadiseGT3

That comparison doesn't help! Want a CS bad. Probably in my future.

Have a history with M cars dating back to E36, 100's of thousands of miles across generations and platforms.

With the right driver, one who isn't offended by rear traction loss, new CSL is probably fun enough on twisty mountain roads, back roads, to forgive the looks.

Front axle on M cars has always been good but starting with F8X gen (especially GTS) it became just about undefeatable. The front end is always there, period. No understeer. Carry way too much speed into a corner it still bites and tracks. You just have to deal with the back end not tracking quite so positively… Offensive to some, apparently, but engaging and fun to others.

If you're a driver who likes dynamic variety, challenging yourself, think there's still plenty to like about M cars. If you came up with them, there is no equivalent driving experience that I've found.

That said, they're not track cars out the box like GT's. BMW CCB don't have anywhere near the durability of PCCB. Continued lack of camber adjustability is a joke, this CSL would chew through shoulders in a session or two at speed on track.

And modifications to make them track worthy are increasingly difficult as the pace & weight have increased. Talked to a G82 owner at track a while back, TC "off" is apparently no more. He was eating through rear pads at an absurd, disproportionate rate.

But yeah, want that dang uber M5 and would love a go for an afternoon of mountain roads with the CSL.

C.J. Ichiban

I really think you are right. something about the weight balance and actual front contact patch on the M cars is leagues better than the equivalent cars from mercedes or audi for instance. the only MB products I have liked recently are the black series GTR and the new G63 is way way better than the older ones.

audi seemingly never has enough rubber on the road- I hope that changes for the R8 GT as it's the last V10 and will be my "track toy" since I'm not getting a 3RS.