Johannes Van Overbeek - GT3T Driving Impressions
#31
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Why have we been promised a C8 Z06 Nürburgring lap time for over a year (and most recently teased 8 months ago) and still no lap?
Surely with 160 hp more and 115 ft-lbs more torque than the GT3 and RS and MRC suspension with Mid-Engine chassis and huge sticky tires, it should be much faster??
So far, 7:12.64 (no mention if short or long version of the lap, but ~13 seconds slower than GT3 even if long lap):
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/09...ime-video/amp/
https://youtu.be/0vQTCt0d36I
Surely with 160 hp more and 115 ft-lbs more torque than the GT3 and RS and MRC suspension with Mid-Engine chassis and huge sticky tires, it should be much faster??
So far, 7:12.64 (no mention if short or long version of the lap, but ~13 seconds slower than GT3 even if long lap):
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/09...ime-video/amp/
https://youtu.be/0vQTCt0d36I
#32
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Only a few hundred cars being produced this year; everything else pushed to calendar year 2023. Lots of pissed off potential owners on corvetteforum.com saying they are giving up on the car and wondering if there’s something intrinsically wrong with the drivetrain as the reason for the current delay. Oh; and the BS ADM/flipper games of course.
#33
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I might get flamed for this but....
IMO, I think Porsche is losing its edge in the suspension/damping game. Similar to how at one time BMW was the Ultimate Driving Machine, it has not been so for a long time now, yet people still buy into the marketing of it.
I said it earlier, but it is worth repeating, MRC (Magnetic Ride Control) is where it is at technology wise. It allows you to have your cake and eat it too. Similar to BMW, Porsche sets up their cars for smooth roads only and that is where they shine and feel amazing. HOWEVER when the roads turn to crap and the suspension gets a good workout, THIS is where great damping tuning shows. BMW has not had it for a long time now and Porsche is trending in the wrong direction.
I was severely disappointed with my stock 718 GT4 PASM damping.
IMO, I think Porsche is losing its edge in the suspension/damping game. Similar to how at one time BMW was the Ultimate Driving Machine, it has not been so for a long time now, yet people still buy into the marketing of it.
I said it earlier, but it is worth repeating, MRC (Magnetic Ride Control) is where it is at technology wise. It allows you to have your cake and eat it too. Similar to BMW, Porsche sets up their cars for smooth roads only and that is where they shine and feel amazing. HOWEVER when the roads turn to crap and the suspension gets a good workout, THIS is where great damping tuning shows. BMW has not had it for a long time now and Porsche is trending in the wrong direction.
I was severely disappointed with my stock 718 GT4 PASM damping.
I hope they've fitted different dampers to the new RS otherwise it won't be as good as it could or should be.
#35
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I might get flamed for this but....
IMO, I think Porsche is losing its edge in the suspension/damping game. Similar to how at one time BMW was the Ultimate Driving Machine, it has not been so for a long time now, yet people still buy into the marketing of it.
I said it earlier, but it is worth repeating, MRC (Magnetic Ride Control) is where it is at technology wise. It allows you to have your cake and eat it too. Similar to BMW, Porsche sets up their cars for smooth roads only and that is where they shine and feel amazing. HOWEVER when the roads turn to crap and the suspension gets a good workout, THIS is where great damping tuning shows. BMW has not had it for a long time now and Porsche is trending in the wrong direction.
I was severely disappointed with my stock 718 GT4 PASM damping.
IMO, I think Porsche is losing its edge in the suspension/damping game. Similar to how at one time BMW was the Ultimate Driving Machine, it has not been so for a long time now, yet people still buy into the marketing of it.
I said it earlier, but it is worth repeating, MRC (Magnetic Ride Control) is where it is at technology wise. It allows you to have your cake and eat it too. Similar to BMW, Porsche sets up their cars for smooth roads only and that is where they shine and feel amazing. HOWEVER when the roads turn to crap and the suspension gets a good workout, THIS is where great damping tuning shows. BMW has not had it for a long time now and Porsche is trending in the wrong direction.
I was severely disappointed with my stock 718 GT4 PASM damping.
Porsche GT cars are designed to be genuinely track capable - the consequence of this is they must be stable and handle bumps and minor perturbations up to around 280-290kmh e.g. Dottinger Hohe. A minor bump at 110kmh may be a major problem at 250 kmh. Thus damping and spring rates are designed to be safe at these high speeds, superimposed on this is control on piston travel length - if you hit the bump stops/bottom out at 240kmh you may be thrown off the track.
The reality as speeds increase, downforce increases and as a result spring rates must go up to balance downforce and impact force transmitted through surface imperfections. The result is you end up with suspension that is designed to limit travel 90% of the time over a piston length of ~ 2 inches at well above road legal speeds. The knock on effect is at road legal speeds piston movement is small and changes to damping within the spring rate calibration has less room for manoeuvre. In other words the car "jiggles" - this is not a problem with PASM its a problem with the design envelope of the car.
In other words, if you put your foot down and drive at speeds more towards the cars track envelope you will find the damping is fine.
Last edited by groundhog; 09-12-2022 at 07:35 AM.
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#36
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My car has Corsa tires. About 2000 km on the clock now.
The tires are quiet when compared to Cup 2. Read up on them after I took delivery to see what I was in for, they actually have noise cancelling tech in the tire. Jet engine spooling...could not disagree more.
@RUF RS Has a point. Expectations versus reality. Touring name might set somebody up with different expectations but it's a GT3 same as the wing car.
The tires are quiet when compared to Cup 2. Read up on them after I took delivery to see what I was in for, they actually have noise cancelling tech in the tire. Jet engine spooling...could not disagree more.
@RUF RS Has a point. Expectations versus reality. Touring name might set somebody up with different expectations but it's a GT3 same as the wing car.
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#38
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I fully agree with the comments about downforce and suspension travel and spring rates having to compensate for that. What I dont understand is why touring has to make the same compromises? Touring does not have the same amount of downforce and as such should get suitable springs and suspension tuning for its needs. If that happened, most people would be happy.
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#39
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BMW and Porsche REALLY, REALLY, REALLY need to give up on their in house outdated shock technology and move to the superior Magnaride dampers that most high end MFG. (and low end for that matter, ie Mustang) are moving too.
There is just no equal for a do it all damping system.
There is just no equal for a do it all damping system.
#40
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I owned a GT350 with magride. I think it's ok for what it is...the difference between comfort and sport is very large and noticeable. Even the realtime adapting is noticeable, but it also feels artificial and slightly disconnected. I think Porsche does damping so well, i wouldn't change it to magride. BMW on the otherhand...their sh*t sucks, dump it and go magride all the way haha
The thing you have to remember about Magnaride is that the technology and hardware are the same across manufactures, but it's the software tuning that determines how well it works. I have had it in an Audi TTRS and Camaro SS 1LE and both Audi and GM does the tuning very well. I can't comment on Ford as I have never driven one with it.
It is definitely different feeling than a passive damper, but that doesn't make it artificial. It just does things that a traditional damper can't do, like give you 100% damping lock up and stop a rebound movement in its tracks, then relax it .0001 seconds later. It operates at like 1000 times a second or something crazy like that. The newest version of Magnaride, which is only used on the C8 and Caddy performance lines, also now use actual data from sensors rather than prediction software to make adjustments.
Porsche damping is definitely better than BMW (hell Honda and Toyota do damping better than BMW these days), but Porsche isn't perfect either. Both the GT3 and GT4 cars suffer from a pogo stick effect on the front axle, and at least on the GT4, they underdamped the rebound in both modes.
#41
#43
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Just returned from one of my Sunday morning country road drives. It is a quiet agricultural area, lo to no traffic, lot of curves and shape. I was in sport mode and driving at the “fun” speed. Great fun indeed, however there is a section of road that is very irregular, pavement good but it is lumpy and bumpy. So I transition from ideal road to this section and he car starts jumping and pitching. I am using the full road and cheating in the middle. I had to back off or risk a lurch to the shoulder and trouble. Yes the suspension is very hard sprung. My 991.1 GT3 was more compliant and would better absorb the type of road irregularity. Sure I was going at a frisky speed but it got ready to bounce right off the pavement and I was working the wheel more white knuckle than track driving. I make no complaint as I like the suspension set up and especially the front end steering action. I know the limit and back off when the over sprung condition is trouble. So I understand what the Brit journalist are saying as my country road is in the same nature. So let’s say you could go 90+ but you better hold it to 65-70 or have a hop into the bushes.
#44
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Porsche damping is definitely better than BMW (hell Honda and Toyota do damping better than BMW these days), but Porsche isn't perfect either. Both the GT3 and GT4 cars suffer from a pogo stick effect on the front axle, and at least on the GT4, they underdamped the rebound in both modes.
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#45
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Porsche damping is definitely better than BMW (hell Honda and Toyota do damping better than BMW these days), but Porsche isn't perfect either. Both the GT3 and GT4 cars suffer from a pogo stick effect on the front axle, and at least on the GT4, they underdamped the rebound in both modes.