Agree completely! There will always be something quicker/faster, but the F12 is iconic, IMO.

Was very lucky to secure mine...a 2017 with 3,xxx miles...and incredibly optioned. It will stay in my garage for sometime I suspect.

 

For me its a TDF or 458 Speciale. But same idea. Awesome ride. That car will only go up in value as combustion is gone so soon!

 

The Speciale is on my list...just no quality inventory right now at anywhere near a reasonable price. The TDF is out of my price range for a single vehicle sadly.

Gotta grab what you want now...I suspect cars are going to be very different 5-10 years from now...and not in a good way.

 

Currently working in China, and I'm afraid Drifting's comments on the Chinese Porsche GT market are correct. The sales numbers are very weak compare to EU/NA, and GT cars are much more niche and less recognized in China than in Western market. To give you an example, majority of 991.1 and 991.2 gen. GT3s sold in China were optioned with sofa seats, and most Chinese buyers think 911 Turbo S is superior than GT3/GT3RS. Porsche hasn't done a good job in introducing their GT range to the Chinese market and has spent little to no efforts in marketing their GT products. They currently have no plan to introduce the 992 GT3 to the Chinese Mainland market and you can't even find the model on their Chinese website. 991.1 GT3 was the first GT model Porsche introduced to the Chinese market but after the 991.1 GT3RS Porsche almost pulled the plug on subsequent GT car releases in China due to low demand (Cayman/718 GT/Spyder variants were never introduced, and no manual/touring option either). In addition, 991.2 GT3RS was priced in Ferrari F8 territory and 991.2 GT2RS's base MSRP was a ridiculous 655k USD in China. It's true you need to pay more tax if engine displacement is above 4L, but that's at most 50k USD on top of a 400k+ USD base MSRP product (assuming 992 GT3RS would have a base MSRP of 400k+ USD in China if introduced, based on the fact that 991.2 GT3RS's MSRP was around 388k USD), and considering GT cars in China are such niche products, the increase in displacement would really have little to no effect on sales numbers in China.

 

thank you much for those details.

I still see a 4.2L NA 992.1 RS and 992.2 GT3 in our future.

Though the 992.2 RS may go hybrid

 

Based on the press I posted above...the Chinese market now represents just under 33% of total sales volume for Porsche.

I do not have actual data and/or anecdotal information to share to either confirm or dispute your contention that the GT cars in China are a extremely niche product.

However, I suspect the MBAs sitting around Porsche headquarters...given the margins involved with GT cars...aint sitting around just conceding the China market for GT cars is "lost" or just aint there. You just don't do that in a market that represents a 1/3 of your volume...and is growing.

Also in the press release I posted, Porsche highlighted that 911 sales continue to "soar" to the tune of 70% YOY. The addressable market for GT cars is there...maybe the Chinese buyer of a 911 today doesn't yet realize it, but Porsche wants to get you into a GT3...maybe that means offering different options for the GT3 in the Chinese market...maybe it means a fancy advertising campaign featuring Chikity China the Chinese Chicken...but it most certainly doesn't mean increasing engine displacement so those potential buyers would be hit with a steep tariff induced price increase.

In the alternative...Porsche could just say "nah...we don't know what to do...the Chinese don't like our GT cars...oh well...lets make a 4.2l for Drifitng."

Now which seems more likely?

 

What is most likely is that you are a guy that can’t ever admit he is wrong.

70% increase of a small number is still a small number. We just heard from someone with expertise in china itself.
The Chinese aren’t interested in buying true Porsche race cars, at least not in numbers comparable to America.

maybe you’re the boss of your own company and so you don’t ever have to face facts because your employees are all yes men, but a little humility is good for all of us, no matter how far we might have advanced in our professional lives.

you’re wrong. Deal with it.

 

Child Please!

You literally have offered nothing to support your claim. ONLY your subjective opinion that the Chinese are "poseurs" and rely on a source because they are currently working in China.

Whereas I have offered the very real evidence that increasing engine displacement above 4.0l involves a significant tariff. I have offered further evidence showing that sales of the 911 model in China are "soaring"...to which you respond "70% of a small number is still a small number." Well...do you consider the now 3rd largest market for the 911 a "small number"?

"The activities are also reflected in the figures. In 2020, the 911 and the 718 recorded robust sales growth of 70 and 50 per cent respectively. This means that China is now the third-largest global market for two-door Porsche sports cars, even though the Chinese were initially more interested in other model series."

20 year anniversary of Porsche in mainland China

I had a law professor that use to say "the less you know, the less you know it." I think that is quite fitting way to describe your position...with certainty, I might add...regarding this topic.

 

Why the interest in a 4.2 engine? Is it more horsepower you seek? Car not fast enough for you? Being passed on track? Are you extracting 10/10 out of the 4.0? I am curious because maybe I'm overlooking the obvious.

I don't need more power. I wouldn't mind having more torque and I think that can and will happen with light hybridization. The downforce on the 992 RS will help improve lap times for sure.

 

The Chinese market cares little about the GT models, esp when their straight line speed is not eye catching, nor is the styling all that (except maybe for the rumored upcoming 992 GT3RS with that park bench in the back).

That said, a 4.2L is about as likely as a GT3RS “touring” option for a variety of reasons, incl. reliability, emissions, costs, and … availability of a better option to increase power (read: mild hybrid a la the e-hybrid systems in the Panamera And Cayenne).

 

I agree with both of your points.

However, with regard to the GT models, Porsche is trying to change that perception...

"To help cultivate its image, Porsche has opened its first Experience Center in Asia just outside Shanghai's Formula One circuit. The center has its own race track with a kick plate, water slicks and even low-friction paint to simulate the slippery conditions of driving on ice. For 3,500 renminbi, or 460 euros, a visitor can get 90 minutes of one-on-one coaching on how to properly handle a sports car by a Porsche instructor in one of the center's 911s."

Porsche wants Chinese buyers to love the 911 (autonews.com)

I get it...in China there isn't a market of young people that make the equivalent of $150k here in the US that "stretch" to buy a GT car as some form of conspicuous consumption. The Experience Center, mentioned in the article above, is Porsche's way to try to change that I presume.

As we both know...the GT cars are not meant to be produced in significant size to really move the needle on overall production volume to a significant degree. However, the margins on the GT cars is what Porsche is looking to maintain while also expanding to underserved markets...like China. So, Porsche likely doesn't care to a significant degree what most Chinese buyers like/want when it comes to the GT cars...they focus on the wealthy ("Top Guns," apparently) since the GT car is likely the 4th+ car they would own. The quote below is also from the article I linked in this post...

Another handicap is the 911's compact proportions. "It's seen as a women's car in China," said a former Porsche manager. "There are some wealthy customers internally called 'Top Guns' that also buy 911s but then you're talking the most expensive versions like the GT3 — they would never buy your standard Carrera."

 

When I was at a recent Taycan event, the Porsche rep said we’ll see any future GT power plants in racing before street. She specifically said, no hybrid RS until Hybrid Cup or GT3R or RSR, etc…

BTW, the 4.2L is already being raced…

 

I'm currently in a 3.8 car, hence the 991.1 GT3. If I am lucky enough at some point to secure an allocation on a new GT car I would like to have the 4.2 *IF* it is offered. Some of it is purely wanting the newest, some of it is more power, some of it is just other reasons. I absolutely LOVE A LOT about my .1 car and there are things that I would like to have out of a newer car. I just look at it as, if I'm going to be spending that kind of money on a new car, I'd prefer to not spend it on a 992.1 GT3 then a year or two later the 4.2 comes out. I have a 5.2 liter Mustang that's almost finished currently on 19 lbs of boost with race gas. So yeah I'd like the car to be a little faster in a straight line and moving to a 4.0 from the 3.8 isn't going to be much of a jump vs what they could do with the 4.2. I know some people will just say who cares, or just learn to drive better on a track or whatever their opinion is, and that's fine. That is their opinion. This is just what I want so I'm just trying to compile data, my options etc. The debates will always continue and speculation until something actually comes out. I mean some of the fun of all of it is the guessing game. No need for people to get into a pissing match of who is right or wrong. There are some good data points so far that have been brought up but I do agree if the GT market in China is so small Porsche won't cave to that. Hell they were telling CA to basically go F themselves over a manual transmission until an agreement was made.