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Well, pricing is good I guess. My insurance company offered me $59k and I told them I wanted $65k, they came back the next day and said yes. A 2013S MT, hard top, PSE, Chrono, SPASM and sport seats plus with no creature features. I paid $71,400 about a year and a half ago, CPO from the local dealer. It had 38k mi and now has 54k. I could feel the clutch needing to be replaced in the next year, hard to shift in the early gears when it was cold.
I just wonder, if one desires a manual transmission, does it make sense to pay up to $90k for a used car when a new base model starts at that price?
Miles seem to matter most. Also the 997.2's and the 991.1 prices are starting to intermingle and they seem to be propping each other up. Its really bizarre to watch the market for these cars right now.
911's in general have taken off in terms of pricing in all era's. 993 and earlier are pretty much investment grade these days. That makes the 996 the bottom of the market and even there I am starting to see an uptick. Regardless of what people say about the 996 its a lot of car for the money if you can find one that's well sorted. IMS updated etc.
To me the 997.1 is turning into the lost generation because of the inability to service the IMS without a full engine breakdown. I know failures were far fewer and overblown but lets face it do you want to be one of those unlucky souls with a 20k engine rebuild tab? In many cases a well sorted 996 is starting price above a 997.1. We should all be thankful that the 996 is holding steady and gaining because it pushing everything newer up.
997.2 are super scarce because of the market meltdown in 2007-2008. Those have no IMS to speak of so their prices are holding accordingly. They also have PDK so the "automatics" are not driving the pricing in southerly direction in the way automatics drove prices down in previous gens. Sticks are still worth more from this era and get snapped up quick but the pdk cars not exactly laying around either.
In terms of capability between between anything 997.2 compared to 991.1 the performance deltas are measured in 10th's when comparing like models ranges. Its going to come down to driver skill more then the car, and lets face it very few of us have the talent level to eek out the 10ths that separate the two. Even in a strait line PDK 997.2 vs PDK 991.1 keeps the playing field level.
991.1's seem to have their pricing holding steady because they are last naturally aspirated Porsches, will that carry in the way the 993's did as the last of the air cooled? Too early to tell, seeing the 16's and 17's start to fight each other on price seems to be a good sign. Its sort of how the 993 vs 996 battle started back in the day.
The 991.2's because of the engine change represent a noticeable performance gain of these two prior generation and the pricing seems to be stratospherically higher. The 991.2 S & GTS models are touching 997.1 Turbo territory (in terms of performance) which is crazy when you think that only 10 years separate them.
Finally the Used 991.1 Turbo versus the new 991.2 S and GTS are leaving consumers to chose do I want more warranty or do I want to get to 60 1 second faster or jail speeds 2 seconds faster. Bottom line its a great time to own a 911.
Just speaking of the C4 & C4S coupe variants
996 seem to start in the mid 20's and scoot up into the mid 30's.
997.1 pickup in the mid 30's and hover into the upper 40's
997.2 pickup in the low 50's and go north into the upper 60's.
991.1 pickup in the mid to upper 60's and hit the 100's if its super low miles and only a year or two old.
Right now if I had to re-buy my 991.1 I would struggle to find one at the price I found mine at.
Very good analysis
Market is definitely very strong. I sold my 13 C2S about 2 years ago at 90K (MSRP 124K) and I'm not able to find one with low miles for less than 75K and none have 18 way seats, PSE, Chrono & extended leather all together, 18 way seems very rare for some reason. I actually even emailed the owner to see if he wants to sell it back!
How about reliability on 991.1? we dont' see too many posts about issues with higher miles ones, they seem to be very reliable? That's one thing I'm concerned about, as finding a certified one makes the search ten times more limited.
I think it's best to buy smart, not get emotional, say no to financing-always buy with cash, be willing to walk away and always have the cash ready. I have some money coming from the diesel scandal. I will miss the 911S, but the Cayenne diesel is a great car as well. Maybe things will settle down when people get accustomed to the new turbos
I've driven most of the 991.x variants and actually preferred the 991.2 base manual to that of the 991.1S. The new car's low end torque made the car feel much quicker for 90% of my driving. I am not one of those who insist on NA though. I feel a CPO 997.2 is the way to go and warranteed for at least 5 years. Use Porsches's own national CPO search and maybe travel. Those cars are out there.
Nothing wrong with a some financing, money is cheap. With financing at 3%, and many investments easily getting 8%, why would you pay cash? If your investment yields dips down and you get nervous then just pay off you car.
Sorry about the flood but look at it as an opportunity to upgrade. This is a good thing. Good luck!
I apologize in advance but I could not find the thread(s). I lost my 2013 S manual , SPASM, PSE, Chrono, and hardtop in a flood. The prices I have been seeing are very expensive (I paid 71,500 about a year and a half ago).
Have the values increased (most I have seen are in the 75-90k range)?
Or is everyone just asking too much?
I am looking for a '13 or later (would like a cpo) with a manual
Thanks,
David
I just picked up a CPO 2015 4S, miles 9K, with PDK, Chrono, no PSE though. Build price $130K for $89K.
I'm happy with what I payed, it was below KBB, but I waited and watched on Porsche USA pre car locator (has inventory of all Porsche dealers in the nation) and compared prices on cargurus.com for deals.
Also to note, porscheusa.com may take a few days to update the pricing versus the dealers actual website as mine vehicle price fell $3K on car gurus and the actual dealer website before porscheusa.com updated a few days later.
Take your time and don't settle, most dealers are going to avoid negotiating and come back with this "we're competitively priced" blanket statement, then the price will drop a few weeks later to what you wanted to offer, as mine did.
My vehicle price changed 6 or 7 times over a 5-6 month period (verified on cargurus.com) but I wasn't in a rush.
Miles seem to matter most. Also the 997.2's and the 991.1 prices are starting to intermingle and they seem to be propping each other up. Its really bizarre to watch the market for these cars right now.
911's in general have taken off in terms of pricing in all era's. 993 and earlier are pretty much investment grade these days. That makes the 996 the bottom of the market and even there I am starting to see an uptick. Regardless of what people say about the 996 its a lot of car for the money if you can find one that's well sorted. IMS updated etc.
To me the 997.1 is turning into the lost generation because of the inability to service the IMS without a full engine breakdown. I know failures were far fewer and overblown but lets face it do you want to be one of those unlucky souls with a 20k engine rebuild tab? In many cases a well sorted 996 is starting price above a 997.1. We should all be thankful that the 996 is holding steady and gaining because it pushing everything newer up.
997.2 are super scarce because of the market meltdown in 2007-2008. Those have no IMS to speak of so their prices are holding accordingly. They also have PDK so the "automatics" are not driving the pricing in southerly direction in the way automatics drove prices down in previous gens. Sticks are still worth more from this era and get snapped up quick but the pdk cars not exactly laying around either.
In terms of capability between between anything 997.2 compared to 991.1 the performance deltas are measured in 10th's when comparing like models ranges. Its going to come down to driver skill more then the car, and lets face it very few of us have the talent level to eek out the 10ths that separate the two. Even in a strait line PDK 997.2 vs PDK 991.1 keeps the playing field level.
991.1's seem to have their pricing holding steady because they are last naturally aspirated Porsches, will that carry in the way the 993's did as the last of the air cooled? Too early to tell, seeing the 16's and 17's start to fight each other on price seems to be a good sign. Its sort of how the 993 vs 996 battle started back in the day.
The 991.2's because of the engine change represent a noticeable performance gain of these two prior generation and the pricing seems to be stratospherically higher. The 991.2 S & GTS models are touching 997.1 Turbo territory (in terms of performance) which is crazy when you think that only 10 years separate them.
Finally the Used 991.1 Turbo versus the new 991.2 S and GTS are leaving consumers to chose do I want more warranty or do I want to get to 60 1 second faster or jail speeds 2 seconds faster. Bottom line its a great time to own a 911.
Just speaking of the C4 & C4S coupe variants
996 seem to start in the mid 20's and scoot up into the mid 30's.
997.1 pickup in the mid 30's and hover into the upper 40's
997.2 pickup in the low 50's and go north into the upper 60's.
991.1 pickup in the mid to upper 60's and hit the 100's if its super low miles and only a year or two old.
Right now if I had to re-buy my 991.1 I would struggle to find one at the price I found mine at.
there is as much performance delta between the 997 and 991.1 as there is between the 991.1 and 991.2. There is an even bigger handling difference and comfort difference between the 997 and 991.1. Comfort may very well not be what people are seeking but it's there.
I agree to the 991 is more comfortable then the 997. In terms of performance the 997.2 and 991.1 are pretty close. Like I mentioned to find that delta you really need to be on a track running near the edge of the performance envelope to have the delta translate into real numbers. I honestly do not think most of us could tease out seconds between a 997.2 and 991.1 bodies. Randy Pobst? Different story. The delta in the 991.1 to the 991.2 is far more pronounced, and the numbers prove it. C&D has a pretty steady testing methodology. Also comparing PDK on PDK eliminates driver skill (or lack there of)
Interesting post. I just picked up a 14 C4S 12k miles PDK SC PSE SPASM Technos 18 ways plus many other goodies for $81.5k silver/black no sunroof. While my heart was set on a sunroof and ventilated seats, I really wanted something newer (2014+), super clean, and under 13k miles for $80k. However I've been checking the past couple of weeks after I got my car, and there has been NOTHING that I would have bought so I'm happy with my purchase.
It seems like most 911's that sit are white or have beige interior. If its a black / silver exterior w black interior nicely optioned and a good price it will sell quick.
I just missed my perfect spec 14 C2S 15k CPO for $81k. Listed and sold in a day. I "slept on it" and it sold the next morning. Still kicking myself...
I looked for over a month. The "good" prime cars - good colors, low miles, etc would sell in a day or two. It was getting a bit ridiculous as everytime I would decide on a car it would be sold. And I was looking at a 800 mile radius!
There's probably not a "massive" amount of risk in saying that you're not much of an investor.
Other than making a successful profession of it for the last 30 years, not much.
If you can't tell the difference between the risk difference on each side of that equation and how it's being priced into the expected return, you're the one that might not be much of an investor. It was presented as if it were some riskless arbitrage situation, and it's anything but. The logic in that post reminds me of various conversations I had with dumb investors during the last two bubble periods. People who made money throwing darts in bubble markets and thought they had it all figured out. Of course, they didn't.
It's tough to beat the professionals, especially when the Fed and DC are involved. In 2008 I was looking at 4wd pickup trucks and the dealers were willing to sell a $37,000 truck for $26,000. I haven't been looking at trucks lately, but I have heard that the sticker prices are way high right now. Given what has been going on since 2008 I am a little concerned about buying anything. The world seems a little crazy, but I think things are going to improve. I will definitely be careful about investing and purchasing a 911.
I agree to the 991 is more comfortable then the 997. In terms of performance the 997.2 and 991.1 are pretty close. Like I mentioned to find that delta you really need to be on a track running near the edge of the performance envelope to have the delta translate into real numbers. I honestly do not think most of us could tease out seconds between a 997.2 and 991.1 bodies. Randy Pobst? Different story. The delta in the 991.1 to the 991.2 is far more pronounced, and the numbers prove it. C&D has a pretty steady testing methodology. Also comparing PDK on PDK eliminates driver skill (or lack there of)
I'm not just talking 0-60 times although with launch control (as used on the .2 there) C/D had clocked the .1 at 3.6 0-60. But you'll also notice in your own posted data that the 991.1 handles BETTER than the .2.... The 991.1 is the better balanced of all 3 and chassis had HUGE improvements from 997 to 991.1 with minor changes to 991.2.
I have just decided to jump into the market as well. I am thinking of selling my 993 and looking for a 2014ish 991.1 C2S Convertible. I have looked around a bit at local dealers websites and prices are pretty high.
I am concerned with what I am reading about low inventory and high prices. But I will be patient and keep looking.
In the meantime if anybody knows of a great deal. PM me.
:-)
04-29-2017, 09:43 AM
