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OK, I've had my 991.2 C4 for about 2000 miles now, and I think it's fair to set down a comprehensive catalogue of my thoughts. A few preliminary items to begin, however.
I have wanted a Porsche almost all my life . . . a dream of mine since childhood. I can remember the poster on my wall. I can remember thinking it was EASILY the second most beautiful thing in Risky Business (that seems fair!!). And around September of this year I finally made it happen - a 991.2 C4 in manual transmission. Mine has sport chrono, sport exhaust, Bose, Turbo wheels (Why??), and one or two other things I cannot put my finger on right now. Capital cost was about $115k. By way of context, in the last 8 years I have owned (and enjoyed) Mercedes Benz E350 (x 2), Audi A6 (3.0). Right now we have a 2017 Mercedes GL350 (or is it GLE350, I'm not sure) and a 2016 VW GTI (Mk 7, I believe - in manual). I list these out because this is the context within which I approach my experience with the 911.
Let me say one other thing because I think it bears making explicit. It took me a month or two to learn how to "drive" the thing. I shouldn't say I needed to "learn" how to drive it - rather, I needed to get comfortable with ACTUALLY driving it. That means running it through the gears aggressively. Pushing it, taking corners at speed (even now, I'm sure I only wring 70% out of it when I think I'm being aggressive). This is important, because in my opinion, as a sports car, it is amazing. As a car, it is ****. And ultimately I am unhappy with it and thank my lucky stars I leased it rather than bought it. The irony of this is that I'm nearly certain I'll get another one when the lease is done. That seems ****ed up - I know.
Let's start with interior fit and finish. It's fine. It's high quality, but certainly NO higher quality than the one in the GTI. In fact, I'd venture to say the leather in the GTI is nicer. Seems nicer to me, anyway. Dammit also, if the GTI has fewer creeks and rattles!! It just does (same goes for all of the Mercedes I've had). This is a particular bugaboo of mine (my one area of OCD). How is a $115k car plagued with rattles? Rattles in passenger side door handle. Rattles in the passenger rear seat belt. Rattles in the rear window. A persistent "creek" sound (like cellophane crinkling) in rear passenger well (this one worse when cold). And Oh MY GOD, the sound of the sunroof is RIDICULOUS when it's wet (i.e., after a rain). RIDICULOUS!!! When the rubber is wet, the glass panel makes the most awful sound as it rubs against it with every bump. I'm sure it has something to do with the chemistry of the particular rubber compound they use. Fine!! But you know who's sunroof does NOT make any noise - the $30k GTI!! WTF, Porsche!!! This isn't just me. We have a rattles thread on this forum almost monthly. It's ridiculous.
Which brings me to another irony - I've NO DOUBT that compromises were made to sound dampening materials, etc., to save weight in the interest of absolute performance. Fine. . . which almost certainly explains why you can hear damned near every molecule jump up off the road and impact the underside of the wheel well when you drive. Which is why I am so puzzled that I can hardly hear the sport exhaust in the cabin at all. On the outside, there's NO DOUBT you have the thing on - but inside it's subtle. That said, without it I DO hear the turbo whine, and I'm no fan of that. And I love it with the windows open (and I do so like the "burbling" sounds it makes on decelerations), so I consider PSE to be essential. For the record, i would have GLADLY traded 0.1 seconds of 0-60 time for 15 pounds of sound isolation in the wheel wells. For me, this is a poorly conceived compromise. But, others will surely disagree and the car is what it is.
The BOSE is ****e! It just doesn't sound that great. I refuse to believe this is an inherent compromise due to interior acoustics of the car (or the space available for the speakers or behind the speakers in the doors, dash, etc.) I think BOSE, as a brand, is overhyped and largely garbage. Their home products are over-priced and undergood. And I suspect the same goes for the car stuff. I have NEVER heard a good BOSE system in a car. You know which car's stereo sounds GREAT?? The GTI's. The Fender system in the VW is markedly better. So is the Harmon Karden system in the Mercedes. And please don't tell me the Bose system is "flatter", or the Fender system is "built to satisfy the unsophisticated tastes of the mass market, blah blah". I've owned Naim and Linn and Rega and Ortofon for years at home.
Anyway, I'm sure a great deal of what I've written above with be met with incredulity, and accusations of mental instability and who knows what else. But I'm going to push my luck with one other observation: The gearbox in the Porsche is merely "ok", but not revelatory. I don't know jack squat about whether the gearing is too tall, too short, etc. I just mean the "feel" of the shifter as you take it through the gears. Again, here, the GTI's box feels "better" to me. It more supple, softer, less clunky (though I do feel that first gear in the GTI is too tall). My personal preference is for the GTI shifting feel. Maybe that will cement my heresy!!
But as a performance car, I have never driven anything close to the 911. The clutch feels fantastic, and it grips like a motherf***er. The GTI's clutch feels soft and squishy in comparison. There are few pleasures as satisfying as taking second gear to 7000 RPM's, then doing it again in 3rd (which, by then, you're looking at jail time!). I like goosing the accelerator as I'm leaning into a corner. . . It just HOLDS, which amazes me every time. The brakes are fantastic and inspire loads of confidence (though, again, the embarrassment of coming to a stop in a $115k car with squeaking brakes is indescribable - Porsche, WTF!! What is the excuse for that????!!!!
Anyway, in case you haven't figure it out, I am frustrated by this car. I know Porsche is capable of improving certain things about it - the Macan I drove was not plagued by many of these issues (though it was plagued by some). I don't know - if I were in charge of Porsche, I would take a list of my top 10 complaints and ask the engineers at VW to help me fix them. You may lose 1% of the performance of Porsche's flagship sports platform, but would end up with a better overall package that i would feel a lot better about spending the equivalent of a starter home on.
I am on my 4th Porsche and you are right on with many of your points, but for some reason.....I have gone back and there is NO SUBSTUTUTE. After all, what do you expect from a VW?
I've had two 991S's - Bose in the first one and Burmester in the current one. The Bose was adequate but the Burmester is fantastic, in my opinion.
Rattles are a funny thing - I've read a lot of complaints about rattles in the 991. My first 991S had rattles but my second one has zero (with 15k miles on it now). Odd. Neither of the sunroofs in my 991S's rattled, though.
Sounds like u should trade it for a couple of VWs. May make u happy
I predicted this exact response from somebody when I posted.
Of course the VW would be a poor substitute for a Porsche 911. But it is a valid comparison for those mundane tasks that even Porsche's should be expected to get right.
No disrespect here, but it seems to me that this is just not your ride. Trade it, sell it but in the end be happy. You only live once, if you do it right once is enough.
It doesn't rattle so much as rub and "squeak" (like a low pitched "squeak"). Maybe they changed the rubber material for the 991.2. Who knows.
Judd
TripS to the dealer for the squeaky rattles. Plural is intentional as it will take more than one, ask me how I know. And I still have one more to deal with.
A 911 is tough in some regards, as you have pointed out. Noise from the inner fenders, getting in and out and my condolences for getting stuck with the turbo motor. So much for sound... (Flame suit on).
So during one of the dealer visits I got stuck with a new Cayenne. As soon as I got the 911 back, I knew there was no substitute
You did buy a sports car so drive the snot out of it and enjoy it. For all else use your VW...
It's funny, I've now had my 14 C2S for about 4 months and 2,000 miles too and have basically reached the opposite conclusions. After this amount of time, I feel like I've finally become comfortable driving it and having a feel for the way it handles, the way it responds under acceleration and braking. I'm just now getting to the point where I can anticipate the response under different conditions. I love it even more today than I expected to when I first stared looking to make my purchase. I couldn't be happier.
No disrespect here, but it seems to me that this is just not your ride. Trade it, sell it but in the end be happy. You only live once, if you do it right once is enough.
It's only three years out of my life. And, as I've said, I suspect you can't achieve the kind of performance you get in a 911 with anything else (maybe a 718). I know me - and I'll probably end up with another Porsche at the end. But I will still complain about the compromises.
It's funny, I've now had my 14 C2S for about 4 months and 2,000 miles too and have basically reached the opposite conclusions. After this amount of time, I feel like I've finally become comfortable driving it and having a feel for the way it handles, the way it responds under acceleration and braking. I'm just now getting to the point where I can anticipate the response under different conditions. I love it even more today than I expected to when I first stared looking to make my purchase. I couldn't be happier.
ive had the same experience. As a performace machine, I have virtually no complaints. It is much better when you actually drive "the snot out of it", as somebody said.
Unfortunate that you're not happy with your car. I also have a 991.2 C4 and can appreciate some of your complaints, but come away with a different conclusion. You didn't mention if you specced the car yourself, or bought it off the lot. Firstly, I agree with your opinion about the base interior. It's totally mediocre and boring. Oddly, I've been told by multiple dealers that most people are happy with the standard interior. After living with the base interior in my 996, I learned my lesson and ordered the full leather in my 997 and now my 991. Although it's expensive, I wouldn't order a 991 without it. Night and day difference.
I liked the 6MT in my 997 more than I like the 7MT in my 991. The base radio in my current car is acceptable and nothing more. No rattles in my car. Road noise... part of the 911 experience always.
That said, I can't get over how outstanding the 991 is as a whole. Every day, I can't believe how fortunate I am to own it. The good completely outweighs the bad and I'm willing and able to overlook minor imperfections. I realize that others aren't able to do so. What else did you consider when you purchased you 911? Personally, I haven't driven anything in its price range that can come close to offering a comparable driving experience. I suspect you'll come to the same conclusion over time.
Hey Plimpington: I had similar issues with seat belts and exact issue with my glass sunroof.
I am happy to report that after two visits (one for a few hours that proved unsuccessful, the next for 2 days) to Porsche service they are 100% resolved.
Porsche service could not have been more attentive to even he slightest rattle or creek. Bring it in and have these issues addressed, and your love for that car will increase exponentially.
991.1 owner here. Purchased used 2014 C4S in May. Driven 3k mi. Always wanted one. Finally did it. Totally enjoy it.
For the $ spent the interior is ehhh. Not an audio guy, but the Bose is ehhh. My rationalization is it's the stuff we don't immediately see that makes the $ worth it.
It is a race car gussied up to take to the mall.
And tack on $30k just for this silhouette.
Wring it out over a switchbacked mountain pass or on a track and boy howdy those thoughts of ehhh about the interior and sound system get shoved to the bottom of my list pretty fast.
12-07-2016, 09:53 PM
2000 mile thoughts
