C2S/GTS vs Turbo S
11-24-2016, 03:06 PM
#1
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C2S/GTS vs Turbo S
Interested in first hand opinions about the difference as a DD/track use between these two. Can anyone who has owned one and switched to the other offer advice?
11-25-2016, 04:55 PM
#2
This is my opinion based on my limited experience comparing the .2 C2S and Turbo S.
I can't speak to the GTS as I haven't driven one. They seem to have a cult like following here but I do not quite understand the devotion to it vs a well optioned C2S. I really don't care for the centerlocks, alcantara seats, or the black wheels and I did not want to pay a premium for the coming .2 GTS . Nevertheless, I'm sure it will be a fantastic car.
Drove the .2 C2S and Turbo S over two days at PSDS in Birmingham at Barber Motorsports Park. I went there thinking that the Turbo S would be the ultimate car to own. I left there thinking it is a tremendous car but not worth the extra money to get into it for the extra capabilities I will likely never utilize. I also left PSDS realizing that the C2S is as fast as I ever need to go around a race track.
The Turbo S is faster all the way around but felt noticeably heavier on the track. Still great fun to drive but just not as quick through the corners vs the C2S. Very quick to accelerate on the straights. Porsche Traction control helps keep less skilled drivers from overdoing it with the Turbo S.
C2S was my favorite all around car at PSDS because it feels relatively light/nimble with good acceleration and good handling especially with Sport PASM/Sport Package. Not as nimble or pointable as a GT4 but still pretty good. If I only ever drove on track I would get a GT3 or GT4 and be done with it. However my 911 gets driven a few times a week to work.
The Turbo S had the carbon ceramic brakes and the C2S had the regular 6 piston brakes. I could not feel much difference in stopping and slowing during the course of those two days. Probably my inexperience.
Turbo S is the king of the stoplight grand prix if that matters to you. Very few cars can touch it off the line without a good driver or even from a 40 mph roll start. Great touring car, comes with all the bells and whistles and very comfortable to ride in.
.2 C2S is a great all around car. Drove mine on a 6 hour trip yesterday to visit in-laws and in normal mode got just over 29 mpg highway..hand calculated at fill up. Mix of speeds between 65 and 45 mph with virtually no stoplights. .2 C2S is faster in normal mode off the line than my prior 14 C2S in sport mode.
What other car is comfortable to daily drive, 0-60 in less than 4 secs, and can get nearly 30 mpg and still be fun to drive at the track or spirited drive on the twistys?
I would be happy owning either car but saw no need to spend the money on a Turbo S but I can see the attraction in owning one.
I can't speak to the GTS as I haven't driven one. They seem to have a cult like following here but I do not quite understand the devotion to it vs a well optioned C2S. I really don't care for the centerlocks, alcantara seats, or the black wheels and I did not want to pay a premium for the coming .2 GTS . Nevertheless, I'm sure it will be a fantastic car.
Drove the .2 C2S and Turbo S over two days at PSDS in Birmingham at Barber Motorsports Park. I went there thinking that the Turbo S would be the ultimate car to own. I left there thinking it is a tremendous car but not worth the extra money to get into it for the extra capabilities I will likely never utilize. I also left PSDS realizing that the C2S is as fast as I ever need to go around a race track.
The Turbo S is faster all the way around but felt noticeably heavier on the track. Still great fun to drive but just not as quick through the corners vs the C2S. Very quick to accelerate on the straights. Porsche Traction control helps keep less skilled drivers from overdoing it with the Turbo S.
C2S was my favorite all around car at PSDS because it feels relatively light/nimble with good acceleration and good handling especially with Sport PASM/Sport Package. Not as nimble or pointable as a GT4 but still pretty good. If I only ever drove on track I would get a GT3 or GT4 and be done with it. However my 911 gets driven a few times a week to work.
The Turbo S had the carbon ceramic brakes and the C2S had the regular 6 piston brakes. I could not feel much difference in stopping and slowing during the course of those two days. Probably my inexperience.
Turbo S is the king of the stoplight grand prix if that matters to you. Very few cars can touch it off the line without a good driver or even from a 40 mph roll start. Great touring car, comes with all the bells and whistles and very comfortable to ride in.
.2 C2S is a great all around car. Drove mine on a 6 hour trip yesterday to visit in-laws and in normal mode got just over 29 mpg highway..hand calculated at fill up. Mix of speeds between 65 and 45 mph with virtually no stoplights. .2 C2S is faster in normal mode off the line than my prior 14 C2S in sport mode.
What other car is comfortable to daily drive, 0-60 in less than 4 secs, and can get nearly 30 mpg and still be fun to drive at the track or spirited drive on the twistys?
I would be happy owning either car but saw no need to spend the money on a Turbo S but I can see the attraction in owning one.
11-25-2016, 05:20 PM
#3
Great Write Up!
To the OP, perhaps you can post if not already done on the Turbo Forum to see the response from a different perspective.
I too was curious and subscribed to your thread.
Currently driving the GTS but occasionally building TT and TTS online for fun and future possibilities.
To the OP, perhaps you can post if not already done on the Turbo Forum to see the response from a different perspective.
I too was curious and subscribed to your thread.
Currently driving the GTS but occasionally building TT and TTS online for fun and future possibilities.
11-25-2016, 06:23 PM
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Fiverivers, Yes these are great write ups! Driven911, thank you for your post you put a lot of thought into it. Someone's personal perspective means a lot to me, for instance I completely forgot about the weight of the car.
I did ask this in the Turbo forum under the same title.
I did ask this in the Turbo forum under the same title.
11-25-2016, 07:52 PM
#5
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So I just brought home a 991.2 C2S and as a point of comparison I've been triangulating on what cars to keep the last 2-4 years, I had a GT3 and 14 TTS Cab then came the GT3RS and GT4. I took delivery of the RS and GT4 at the same time, took them both to VIR to do some back to back comparisons and came home loving the RS so much that the GT4 just sat home the next 2 track events. So then I started a search for a Cab again.
I liked the TTS cab but not as much as I was hoping for the cost, it was fast but a car that operated on opposite ends of the extreme and it was hard to find a middle. The AWD took away from the RWD sensation most of us like and I just didn't think the PDK combined with turbo lag worked well, i felt like i was always in the wrong gear and needed to use the paddles which I still haven't gotten the hang of. Overall it wasn't that engaging of a car, I spent more time holding it back rather than pushing it for daily use.
I just posted my review of my new C2S, overall if you are looking for a dual purpose car I would be looking for a GTS for sure. I don't think the new C2S will cut it, it just doesn't give you the same driving sensation and honestly I think you would be super fast in a turbo but you would still be missing out on much of the driving experience. My Nissan GT-R was fast as hell, AWD and a monster, passed so many cars but the car did all the work. Over the years I've been getting back to RWD and cars that you need to manhandle to get it to do what you want. That is enjoyment... A Turbo S has such supreme speed and grip that its actually kinda boring and scary at the same time.
I liked the TTS cab but not as much as I was hoping for the cost, it was fast but a car that operated on opposite ends of the extreme and it was hard to find a middle. The AWD took away from the RWD sensation most of us like and I just didn't think the PDK combined with turbo lag worked well, i felt like i was always in the wrong gear and needed to use the paddles which I still haven't gotten the hang of. Overall it wasn't that engaging of a car, I spent more time holding it back rather than pushing it for daily use.
I just posted my review of my new C2S, overall if you are looking for a dual purpose car I would be looking for a GTS for sure. I don't think the new C2S will cut it, it just doesn't give you the same driving sensation and honestly I think you would be super fast in a turbo but you would still be missing out on much of the driving experience. My Nissan GT-R was fast as hell, AWD and a monster, passed so many cars but the car did all the work. Over the years I've been getting back to RWD and cars that you need to manhandle to get it to do what you want. That is enjoyment... A Turbo S has such supreme speed and grip that its actually kinda boring and scary at the same time.
11-26-2016, 02:33 AM
#6
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I've had similar experiences to driven991 and jlee504. I've done some backroads driving in a friends 991.2 C2S, DD and tracked a 991 GT3 for 2 years, and also I've tracked a 991 GT3 and 991.1 Turbo S back to back at Barber, during a Porsche Masters racing course.
The Turbo/Turbo S has tremendous torque and power, but I preferred driving the GT3 on the track, the .2 C2S would be second, and the Turbo third. Both the GT3 and the .2 C2S (with rear wheel steering) feel light, nimble, and engaging. You feel like you are driving the car and extracting performance out of it.
The 911 Turbo was very powerful, but also rather heavy and the AWD took away from the feeling of being in control of the car and in control of my mistakes, because you cover up mistakes with AWD, you just power through everything, but don't learn as much or feel the experience. It's more video game like in the Turbo.
Both the C2S and 911 Turbo are great daily drivers, but I can enjoy more a twisty road on the way to work, or an canyon drive on the weekends in a C2S.
Also you should consider there is more turbo lag in the 911 Turbo/Turbos S than in the 991.2 C2S. Porsche did everything they could to design the .2 C2S with as little as lag as possible, but in the 911 turbo, noticeable lag followed by a big wallop of torque is considered part of the 911 Turbo experience.
Finally, depreciation on a 911 Turbo is noticeably worse than a C2S, and C2S is quite a bit less $ to start with.
I'd go with the .2 C2S now, or the .2 GTS coming out next year, over a 911 Turbo.
Only other consideration is that if you're getting AWD anyway (C4S), then some of those arguments I made above are less valid
The Turbo/Turbo S has tremendous torque and power, but I preferred driving the GT3 on the track, the .2 C2S would be second, and the Turbo third. Both the GT3 and the .2 C2S (with rear wheel steering) feel light, nimble, and engaging. You feel like you are driving the car and extracting performance out of it.
The 911 Turbo was very powerful, but also rather heavy and the AWD took away from the feeling of being in control of the car and in control of my mistakes, because you cover up mistakes with AWD, you just power through everything, but don't learn as much or feel the experience. It's more video game like in the Turbo.
Both the C2S and 911 Turbo are great daily drivers, but I can enjoy more a twisty road on the way to work, or an canyon drive on the weekends in a C2S.
Also you should consider there is more turbo lag in the 911 Turbo/Turbos S than in the 991.2 C2S. Porsche did everything they could to design the .2 C2S with as little as lag as possible, but in the 911 turbo, noticeable lag followed by a big wallop of torque is considered part of the 911 Turbo experience.
Finally, depreciation on a 911 Turbo is noticeably worse than a C2S, and C2S is quite a bit less $ to start with.
I'd go with the .2 C2S now, or the .2 GTS coming out next year, over a 911 Turbo.
Only other consideration is that if you're getting AWD anyway (C4S), then some of those arguments I made above are less valid
Last edited by Drifting; 11-26-2016 at 03:49 AM.
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11-26-2016, 10:18 AM
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Drifting, "I'd go with the .2 C2S now, or the .2 GTS coming out next year, over a 911 Turbo." Good point. The .2 GTS is on my short list. It was too tempting to consider a used turbo s that's about the same price as what I paid for my GTS. They're absolutely beautiful cars. But they are AWD and probably about 400 lbs heavier, so if the incoming GTS is lighter and more powerful then it would be perfect i suppose. I wish I had more time to make it over to the porsche driving experience and put them on the track back to back.
11-26-2016, 01:05 PM
#10
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As someone who just purchased a 991.1 TTS, I've enjoyed reading this thread in each of the forums. I came from a 997 TT, and a 996 C4S before that. I seriously considered a new 991 C4S, and ultimately decided to go with the pre-owned TTS. The torque won me over initially, but all the other things that come with the TTS package sealed the deal for me. The TTS is very well appointed and comfortable.
I live at about 7,200 feet of elevation, and I frequently drive above 8,000 feet. A turbocharged car makes sense for me. I also don't track this car or drive it daily. It's more of a weekend toy. Coming from a 997.1 turbo, I find it amusing that turbo lag is even part of the discussion with the 991 turbo. It's virtually nonexistent compared to the early 997 series.
I think that the way you use your car is ultimately the thing that will help you decide what to do. If my car was used on the track occasionally and driven to work, then I would probably lean towards a RWD, naturally aspirated car. Don't get me wrong; I think the TTS would be a blast on the track, but the experience would not be as pure as a RWD car. The other thing to consider is PDK vs. manual transmission. The TTS is my first 911 without a manual transmission. I think it's the right transmission for this car, but I know I will miss the 6MT from my 997 TT a little bit.
I think you have to ask yourself this question: If I buy a GTS, will there be part of me that regrets my decision and wishes I bought the TTS? If you're worried about this, then buy the TTS. If you're not worried about this, then buy the GTS. It sounds to me like the GTS might be a better car for your needs, but if your heart wants the TTS, then that's what you should buy.
I live at about 7,200 feet of elevation, and I frequently drive above 8,000 feet. A turbocharged car makes sense for me. I also don't track this car or drive it daily. It's more of a weekend toy. Coming from a 997.1 turbo, I find it amusing that turbo lag is even part of the discussion with the 991 turbo. It's virtually nonexistent compared to the early 997 series.
I think that the way you use your car is ultimately the thing that will help you decide what to do. If my car was used on the track occasionally and driven to work, then I would probably lean towards a RWD, naturally aspirated car. Don't get me wrong; I think the TTS would be a blast on the track, but the experience would not be as pure as a RWD car. The other thing to consider is PDK vs. manual transmission. The TTS is my first 911 without a manual transmission. I think it's the right transmission for this car, but I know I will miss the 6MT from my 997 TT a little bit.
I think you have to ask yourself this question: If I buy a GTS, will there be part of me that regrets my decision and wishes I bought the TTS? If you're worried about this, then buy the TTS. If you're not worried about this, then buy the GTS. It sounds to me like the GTS might be a better car for your needs, but if your heart wants the TTS, then that's what you should buy.
12-01-2016, 01:56 AM
#11
Xposted in both forums.
Although not in the market as of now.
This is a Turbo I configured just for fun.
How would this compare to my current 2016 GTS
Opinions? Which would you pick?
http://www.porsche.com/microsite/por...px?c=/PHDT7K39
Although not in the market as of now.
This is a Turbo I configured just for fun.
How would this compare to my current 2016 GTS
Opinions? Which would you pick?
http://www.porsche.com/microsite/por...px?c=/PHDT7K39
12-01-2016, 08:32 AM
#12
Xposted in both forums.
Although not in the market as of now.
This is a Turbo I configured just for fun.
How would this compare to my current 2016 GTS
Opinions? Which would you pick?
http://www.porsche.com/microsite/por...px?c=/PHDT7K39
Although not in the market as of now.
This is a Turbo I configured just for fun.
How would this compare to my current 2016 GTS
Opinions? Which would you pick?
http://www.porsche.com/microsite/por...px?c=/PHDT7K39
Unless you live somewhere that you specifically feel you need front axle lift I think it is unnecessary. I have SPASM on my C2S and haven't needed it yet.
Power folding mirrors...not for me. See no need for it. Car is small enough as it is to fit well within a regular parking spot, if someone dings you I think the mirrors are the least of your worries.
Entry and Drive...Had it and while it was nice I don't really miss it. What usually happened is that I would get used to it on the 911 then get in another car and just sit there trying to start the other car with no key...LOL.
Light Design package...meh.
May consider upgrading the stereo to the Bose.
12-01-2016, 01:13 PM
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i would like to thank everyone for posting their opinions above. It's amazing how we all have completely different standards and approaches to what we expect from cars. Some people absolutely love the TT/TTS and some loathe it. Same with the GTS.
I think ultimately I'm more of a TTS guy, based on my driving habits, but I own a GTS. Being that I have a GTS, I absolutely love the exhaust and would hate to part with it. Furthermore, I think I would be more satisfied if I bought a GTS that was more spec'd to my liking and already gone through the break in period so I can just enjoy it for what it is.
I think ultimately I'm more of a TTS guy, based on my driving habits, but I own a GTS. Being that I have a GTS, I absolutely love the exhaust and would hate to part with it. Furthermore, I think I would be more satisfied if I bought a GTS that was more spec'd to my liking and already gone through the break in period so I can just enjoy it for what it is.
12-01-2016, 02:45 PM
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The NA vs Turbo are completely different. A C2S(any carrera non"turbo") will be more fun to drive and way more visceral on a track. Driving through the mountains or back roads - a carrera is way more fun.
The Turbo is insane at making power and putting it to the street. If you are drag racing or worried about straight line acceleration, there are few cars at any comfort level or price point that can keep up.
Completely different cars and experiences.
The Turbo is insane at making power and putting it to the street. If you are drag racing or worried about straight line acceleration, there are few cars at any comfort level or price point that can keep up.
Completely different cars and experiences.