Is the 991.1/2 a sportscar anymore...?
11-15-2016, 10:55 AM
#1
Is the 991.1/2 a sportscar anymore...?
A friend of mine recently questioned whether the 991.2 I've on order is a 'real sportscar' anymore...Well, after the initial spluttering, I conceded that it's perhaps not so clear-cut these days.
What's the final arbiter of sportscar-ness: weight....size ? So, I thought I'd review some stats. The 928 reached a maximum weight of 1620 kg with the GTS: the 991.2 Targa 4S PDK is just 20kg less....and that's before you've sat in it. Maximum width for the 928 GTS: 1890 mm (and 'only' 1836 mm between 1987-92). The 991.2 4S ? A Twiggy-like 1852 mm. And if you want to get within 10mm of the 928 then just try the 991.2 Turbo S at a mere 1880 mm in width. Even the current GT RS is 1880 mm in girth....and girth, arguably, it is.
I know we've all become richer through the years (although mid-west Trumpites might disagree) and we've all become fatter and heavier... but are we driving real sports cars anymore or approximate facsimiles that match our chubbier lifestyles ? And should we conflate 'capability' with being a sportscar, too: otherwise we might have to mention the latest 1995 kg Panam Turbo in the same breath..... So, is the Miata the 'real' sportscar these days ? Remember Colin Chapman...: "just add lightness".
Mmm, so maybe it's about time Porsche offered a 'standard' stripped-out, 'normal production' 991 which goes below 1400 kg (DIN) ? Nine hundred and ninety one 'Rs' and a lot of other disappointed customers is not , perhaps, the smartest move... when the rest of the 'mainstream' cars keep putting on the lard.....?
What's the final arbiter of sportscar-ness: weight....size ? So, I thought I'd review some stats. The 928 reached a maximum weight of 1620 kg with the GTS: the 991.2 Targa 4S PDK is just 20kg less....and that's before you've sat in it. Maximum width for the 928 GTS: 1890 mm (and 'only' 1836 mm between 1987-92). The 991.2 4S ? A Twiggy-like 1852 mm. And if you want to get within 10mm of the 928 then just try the 991.2 Turbo S at a mere 1880 mm in width. Even the current GT RS is 1880 mm in girth....and girth, arguably, it is.
I know we've all become richer through the years (although mid-west Trumpites might disagree) and we've all become fatter and heavier... but are we driving real sports cars anymore or approximate facsimiles that match our chubbier lifestyles ? And should we conflate 'capability' with being a sportscar, too: otherwise we might have to mention the latest 1995 kg Panam Turbo in the same breath..... So, is the Miata the 'real' sportscar these days ? Remember Colin Chapman...: "just add lightness".
Mmm, so maybe it's about time Porsche offered a 'standard' stripped-out, 'normal production' 991 which goes below 1400 kg (DIN) ? Nine hundred and ninety one 'Rs' and a lot of other disappointed customers is not , perhaps, the smartest move... when the rest of the 'mainstream' cars keep putting on the lard.....?
Last edited by BertoneBertoni; 11-15-2016 at 04:26 PM.
11-15-2016, 12:41 PM
#2
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I would consider it a sports GT............if that makes sense to you.
I can't complain because as you've said, i was a sports car, now I'm more of a sports/GT myself....
I can't complain because as you've said, i was a sports car, now I'm more of a sports/GT myself....
11-15-2016, 04:29 PM
#3
11-17-2016, 10:39 PM
#5
Race Director
And you have some guys here that think certain options make it "too sporty". You can't win.
Yes, it's a sports car!
Two door, low to the ground, useless back seat, a pain to get in/out for many, fast as hell. There you go!
Yes, it's a sports car!
Two door, low to the ground, useless back seat, a pain to get in/out for many, fast as hell. There you go!
11-17-2016, 10:45 PM
#7
Race Director
The "sports car" segment isn't an easy sell these days anyway. They need to make these cars have broader appeal, and they still don't sell a ton.
10,000 911 sales a year and dropping in the USA. PCNA and the dealers can't survive off of that.
10,000 911 sales a year and dropping in the USA. PCNA and the dealers can't survive off of that.
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11-17-2016, 11:54 PM
#10
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
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With my top down, rowing the 7 speed transmission with the PSE on, eye level with the lug nuts of the bro dozers I'm passing, it sure as hell feels like one!
11-17-2016, 11:58 PM
#11
The 991-1-2 is still is a sports car, IMHO,....based upon its performance.
However, I have personally morphed into a GT model, and perhaps some might even say a sedan over the years.
I still own and drive and enjoy the heck out of an MX-5, the best selling roadster of all time. Just to keep me grounded.
However, I have personally morphed into a GT model, and perhaps some might even say a sedan over the years.
I still own and drive and enjoy the heck out of an MX-5, the best selling roadster of all time. Just to keep me grounded.
11-18-2016, 12:03 AM
#12
Drifting
Things evolve to fit the times. Even an elemental 1960s, 70s, 80s or 90s sportscar would have seemed to no longer be a sportscar compared to a Stutz Bearcat or ALFA 8C. But for their times, a 308 GTB, TR8, Alfa Spyder Quadrifoglio, Lotus Elise all seemed quite the sportscar.
Given that, we should be comparing the weight and girth of 991s NOT to flyweight Loti from the sixties, but to competitors in the sportscar realm today. Unless you're willing to stick to sub-200hp four-bangers, I don't think anything comes in any lighter or smaller. (718 is marginally both, and is a 4-banger, although much more than 200hp.)
And even though the great sportscars-for-the-masses of the 50s, 60s and 70s could get by with a 4-pot, that mostly doesn't cut it today.
So I vote yes. 911 is a sportscar.
Given that, we should be comparing the weight and girth of 991s NOT to flyweight Loti from the sixties, but to competitors in the sportscar realm today. Unless you're willing to stick to sub-200hp four-bangers, I don't think anything comes in any lighter or smaller. (718 is marginally both, and is a 4-banger, although much more than 200hp.)
And even though the great sportscars-for-the-masses of the 50s, 60s and 70s could get by with a 4-pot, that mostly doesn't cut it today.
So I vote yes. 911 is a sportscar.
11-18-2016, 12:23 AM
#13
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
11-18-2016, 12:51 AM
#15
Burning Brakes
Coming from a sport bike background-those bikes are nuts, I was skeptical that a sports car could be as fun. Answer is YES. MY 911.2 C2s is very fast and goes around corners very very well. Sports car? Yes! Maybe a little GTish. That too. All good, but no doubt the 991 is a great sports car in my book.