BertoneBertoni

Your dictionary's edition is indeed - post acceptance of Outlaw and Singer - more 'current' than mine. Unfortunately for our 991-owning confreres it was originally published before mine....

BertoneBertoni

You, Sir, make a fair point which naturally leads us to the more refined question implicit at the heart of the debate: which 911 (within its extensive, perhaps even borderline-bewildering, range) is the real sportscar....?

Dan Nagy

It's a trick question! Randy Pobst takes the 2017 Base model for a nice spin on the track in the Motor Trend review.

Al.Fresco

At least you didn't say AMC Pacer.

BertoneBertoni

Now that really is cruel...... Actually, the 993/6/7 Targa I got. Hey, a 911 that was a hatchback: cool ! You can put your golf clubs in without opening a door.....

Function triumphs over form....as any keen follower of Bauhaus or, indeed, Ferdinand Porsche will attest to. But copying a '67 Targa design seems to sweep under the carpet the historical fact that the 'Targa' was only brought in for increasingly stringent roll-over regs in the US...not because the designers thought whacking on a massive roll-over hoop on a cabrio was aesthetically appealing...

I'm sorry..... but the 991 Targa is turning Porsche design principles on its head: form over function. Now, centuwions, welease the Targa Hate Mail....

BertoneBertoni

Ah, at last....a man of discernment who knew this apparently simple, hackneyed and seemingly tedious question had already been answered by the esteemed Mr Pobst....

fast1

The answer as to what a sports car is has become blurred over the decades. If you go back to the 60s and 70s, it was quite easy. There were cars that were designed for your basic transportation (basically appliances), there were luxury cars, and then there were sports cars. Everyone knew what the sports cars were in the early 70s: 911, Corvette, Ferrari, Triumph, MG, and a few others. They were spartan cars that were designed primarily for track use but were street legal.

In 2016 the definition of a sports car is a lot more complex. The definition of what a sports car is reminds me of the debate in the Supreme Court over the definition of pornography. Probably the best answer was offered by Supreme Court justice Potter Stewart : “I know it when I see it”.

So using the “I know it when I see it” model, ole timers like me, my first 911 was purchased in 1970, have a hard time looking at a 911 with full leather, power seats, automatic transmission, Bose stereo, power everything, navigation, etc as a sports car; GT car yes, sports car no. My 2250 lb 1970 911 had a MT, AM radio, and a heater. Lincolns and Cadillacs had all the "goodies" and were over double the size of my 911.

Having said this I have no problem if a 991 owner with all the luxury options, believes he is driving a sports car. Even though his hands stay warm in the winter because he has a heated steering wheel, and his butt stays warm with the heated seats, if he thinks he is driving a sports car, what's the harm.

Valkuri

As if cruel humor is somehow taboo or unknown to Rennlist?

C'mon: 'Giant Jesus Statue Falls on Church Bus'; 'Greenpeace Volunteer Eaten By Polar Bear'; 'Clinton Wins Popular Vote, Loses Election': Cruel, and yet intensely funny, every one of 'em.

Valkuri

Hard to argue.
I personally want to add a TR6 to my garage. Quirky, though not MGB-level quirky; drafty, under equipped with creature comforts, likely slower than a new Toyota: And yet none would question its 'sports car' inclusion.
My own idiosyncrasy (one of a well-polished set of hundreds) is that chasing the 'latest thing' in the automotive state of the art is a fool's errand. I prefer the personal triumph of driving something that's not-quite-in-fashion now, and will be not-quite-in-fashion ten years from now, like the C4S I now drive, and the TR6 I hope to add.
They are the khaki slacks/tasseled loafers/tortoise shell eyeglass frames of sports cars; never in; never out. To each his own.

If you drive a 1973 Mustang with a supercharger sticking out the hood and believe it to be a 'sportscar': God love you, wear your seat belts, and enjoy.

Grunty

Pretty sure I don't want a sportscar. I really love driving track cars, but I wouldn't want one as a car to drive regularly.
i think the 911, boxster and cayman do a fine job of being very comfortable, reasonably practical and most of all, fun.

chuckbdc

Actually, this is my 4th 911 since the early 1970s. I think it is the best sports car I have ever owned, superior in every way to the 78SC I tracked for 30 years, even with the seats being cooled and heated. I find it every bit as involving, just at higher speeds.

If I wanted less handling, more drifting at lower speeds, I would have a Miata. Hell, the spec Miata's are as fast as half the 911s that show up at drivers ed. The "showroom stock" 280Z I raced in the early '80s was as fast as any well prepped semi stock 911 of the day. OK it was VERY WELL prepped. When the engine is swapped around so its in the middle, like the latest 911 race car, it will be an even better sports car.

911sccab

Hmm. I walked out of my office last Thursday... weather was sunny but temp was only 46 degrees. With the touch of a button and 23 odd seconds, I'm sitting cozy with the top open, the windows up, and ready to go.

That's function. It's got nothing to do with 1967, but I do love the historical link. I have convertibles and love them... but it's pretty hard to be cozy in a convertible on a 46 degree day. Convertibles also torture my wife's long curly hair... the Targa doesn't. And after a long day of sitting in my chair and talking on my phone, would I really have the energy to manually remove and stow a top? I doubt I'd bother. The Targa is actually all about function, it just does it with great form... as a Porsche should.

So the Targa, especially with the top open and the sounds from the pipes rising and falling as I shift through the gears, brings me more Sports Car experience on my drives than an admittedly more hardcore PDK Coupe ever would.

Oh, and if the Jenson Interceptor was 440 4-speed... I'd happily consider that too!

NoGaBiker

If I recall correctly, though a 4M was available, that was only in the first year and a tiny number (20? 25? 50?) were built with a manual. The vast majority were 3 speed Torqueflight automatics. In 383, 440, or 360 flavor.

All were... umm... rather unfortunately styled.

The Fat Kid

The 991 is more like a sporty minivan...

2012Neunelf

180 laps on Nurburgring, track days at Spa, Le Mans and Hockenhiemring, YES its a sports car...and i have the 991 3.4L