Targa 4 or 4S?
10-14-2016, 11:53 AM
#31
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You don't want to spend the next four years driving around with S envy do you?
Sure, you don't really need that extra HP and braking capability, but you will have regrets if you don't.
Sure, you don't really need that extra HP and braking capability, but you will have regrets if you don't.
10-14-2016, 12:58 PM
#33
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10-14-2016, 01:43 PM
#35
Though on the turbo, given the torque curve, I think the envy will be very small.
10-14-2016, 01:44 PM
#36
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10-14-2016, 01:51 PM
#37
I love it on my C2S, but it does take some getting used to, because the car corners so flat. Now that I'm used to it, it would almost be a must have for me on a new car. The real benefit, at least on a SPASM car, is that it uses softer sway bars, which results in a nicer ride when you're going straight.
10-14-2016, 02:07 PM
#39
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I agree. PDCC, PTV, RWS, PASM is just not worth it for 99.9% of drivers.
I would get the PTV just for the LSD driving in snow but that is about it. The other "performance options" if you can call them that are really for other purposes:
SPASM - Aesthetics
PSE - Sound
SC - For the rev matching with MT or G-force meter for the brag and gimmick factor.
10-14-2016, 02:39 PM
#40
Not sure PTV is really necessary since base 4 comes standard with Automatic Brake Differential and Porsche Traction Management. PTV is more for improving high speed cornering dynamics which most normal humans would not be doing in the snow/ice. If you think you need it though, then definitely get it.
10-14-2016, 02:44 PM
#41
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Not sure PTV is really necessary since base 4 comes standard with Automatic Brake Differential and Porsche Traction Management. PTV is more for improving high speed cornering dynamics which most normal humans would not be doing in the snow/ice. If you think you need it though, then definitely get it.
Porsche Torque Vectoring (PTV)
"Includes:
- Variable torque distribution through controlled braking on the rear wheels
- Mechanically controlled differential lock with asymmetrical locking action (22% in traction, 27% in overrun) for increased agility, steering precision, traction, and vehicle stability"
10-14-2016, 02:56 PM
#42
I saw that, but I am interpreting what you bolded to mean in high speed situations since ABD and PTM are covering low-traction situations already.
From the owner's manual is where my reasoning comes from. It refers to increased lateral acceleration, limiting understeer, and higher cornering speeds. Not clear which system would intervene first in snow/ice/rain conditions but I lean towards ABD and PTM in those situations. I could be wrong.
From the owner's manual is where my reasoning comes from. It refers to increased lateral acceleration, limiting understeer, and higher cornering speeds. Not clear which system would intervene first in snow/ice/rain conditions but I lean towards ABD and PTM in those situations. I could be wrong.
Vehicles with manual transmission:
Porsche Torque Vectoring (PTV)
PTV consists of a control system for drivingdynamics relevant brake interventions enabling variable drive-torque distribution at the rear axle and a mechanical rear-axle differential lock.
By using gentle braking interventions that are imperceptible to the driver at the rear wheel on the inside of the bend, PTV improves steering performance and steering precision. The vehicle follows the steering angle of the front wheels more precisely. Understeer is largely prevented in the limit range. This increases the lateral acceleration potential and higher cornering speeds are possible.
The mechanical rear-axle differential lock improves traction in the event of wheel spin.
It reduces load alteration effects during rapid cornering and increases driving stability at higher speeds.
Vehicles with Porsche Doppelkupplung:
Porsche Torque Vectoring Plus (PTV Plus)
PTV Plus consists of a control system that performs braking interventions based on driving dynamics to achieve variable drive torque distribution on the rear axle and of an electronically controlled rear differential lock.
PTV Plus improves steering response and precision through gentle braking interventions on the inside rear wheel. This braking action cannot be felt by the driver. The vehicle follows the steering angle of the front wheels more precisely.
Understeer is largely prevented in the limit range. This increases the lateral acceleration potential and higher cornering speeds are possible.
The electronically controlled rear differential lock continuously monitors the driving condition of the vehicle and distributes the drive torque to the rear axle as required.
This has the following advantages:
– Improved traction.
– Reduced load change responses when cornering at speed.
– Improved driving stability at higher speeds.
PTV Plus changes to a more dynamic map when "Sport Plus" is switched on.
Porsche Torque Vectoring (PTV)
PTV consists of a control system for drivingdynamics relevant brake interventions enabling variable drive-torque distribution at the rear axle and a mechanical rear-axle differential lock.
By using gentle braking interventions that are imperceptible to the driver at the rear wheel on the inside of the bend, PTV improves steering performance and steering precision. The vehicle follows the steering angle of the front wheels more precisely. Understeer is largely prevented in the limit range. This increases the lateral acceleration potential and higher cornering speeds are possible.
The mechanical rear-axle differential lock improves traction in the event of wheel spin.
It reduces load alteration effects during rapid cornering and increases driving stability at higher speeds.
Vehicles with Porsche Doppelkupplung:
Porsche Torque Vectoring Plus (PTV Plus)
PTV Plus consists of a control system that performs braking interventions based on driving dynamics to achieve variable drive torque distribution on the rear axle and of an electronically controlled rear differential lock.
PTV Plus improves steering response and precision through gentle braking interventions on the inside rear wheel. This braking action cannot be felt by the driver. The vehicle follows the steering angle of the front wheels more precisely.
Understeer is largely prevented in the limit range. This increases the lateral acceleration potential and higher cornering speeds are possible.
The electronically controlled rear differential lock continuously monitors the driving condition of the vehicle and distributes the drive torque to the rear axle as required.
This has the following advantages:
– Improved traction.
– Reduced load change responses when cornering at speed.
– Improved driving stability at higher speeds.
PTV Plus changes to a more dynamic map when "Sport Plus" is switched on.
10-14-2016, 03:07 PM
#43
I agree. PDCC, PTV, RWS, PASM is just not worth it for 99.9% of drivers.
I would get the PTV just for the LSD driving in snow but that is about it. The other "performance options" if you can call them that are really for other purposes:
SPASM - Aesthetics
SC - For the rev matching with MT or G-force meter for the brag and gimmick factor.
I would get the PTV just for the LSD driving in snow but that is about it. The other "performance options" if you can call them that are really for other purposes:
SPASM - Aesthetics
SC - For the rev matching with MT or G-force meter for the brag and gimmick factor.
As far as sport chrono goes, the dynamic engine mounts you get with the Sport Chrono package are anything but a gimmick. I would never spec a Carrera without SC.
And I would definitely spec PTV in a 4wd car one intends to drive in traction limited situations, such as winter snow. But of course, it's not required. None of this stuff is required, though being chincy on a car to get a build down from $140k to $130k seems kinda dumb to me, at least when the difference are real performance options, not leather shift *****.
I'm guessing you don't drive your cars very hard and assume that 99.9% of other Porsche owners do the same.
10-14-2016, 03:27 PM
#44
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This is exactly what I am talking about. For me, my C4 or T4 is going to be a winter commuting car so I want a 4 and PTV.
Both nonsense. SPASM provides different suspension dynamics that many people, myself included, much preferred over PASM, at least in the .1. The aesthetic side is personal preference, but the performance difference was very real. Based on my test drive of a base .2, I think Porsche may have improved the suspension such that said gap may be diminished or eliminated, but I'd need more seat time in both to really form an opinion.
As far as sport chrono goes, the dynamic engine mounts you get with the Sport Chrono package are anything but a gimmick. I would never spec a Carrera without SC.
And I would definitely spec PTV in a 4wd car one intends to drive in traction limited situations, such as winter snow. But of course, it's not required. None of this stuff is required, though being chincy on a car to get a build down from $140k to $130k seems kinda dumb to me, at least when the difference are real performance options, not leather shift *****.
I'm guessing you don't drive your cars very hard and assume that 99.9% of other Porsche owners do the same.
As far as sport chrono goes, the dynamic engine mounts you get with the Sport Chrono package are anything but a gimmick. I would never spec a Carrera without SC.
And I would definitely spec PTV in a 4wd car one intends to drive in traction limited situations, such as winter snow. But of course, it's not required. None of this stuff is required, though being chincy on a car to get a build down from $140k to $130k seems kinda dumb to me, at least when the difference are real performance options, not leather shift *****.
I'm guessing you don't drive your cars very hard and assume that 99.9% of other Porsche owners do the same.
Yeah I get all that. I would LOVE to take 100 average 911 drivers and ask them to drive a car with and without engine mounts and see if they can really notice. The majority can't detect these differences except on internet forums.
10-14-2016, 03:32 PM
#45
You can absolutely tell the first time you take a tight corner hard. Just like you can easily tell the difference between PASM and SPASM and between PDCC and non-PDCC and between PCCBs and iron rotors. They all have a very real impact on the handling and performance of the car. Not for everyone, but none of them are gimmicks.