991 Straight Line
04-12-2016, 05:48 PM
#46
Banned
The variables in a street race are many. Documented facts show which car is faster and its no surprise. I really have nothing more to say other than you found your Achilles heel on which to build on. If you ever get your hands on a GT and have a itch to scratch give me a PM. I'll be happy to assist.
04-12-2016, 10:31 PM
#47
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Where aspirations are natural
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Well, to be fair, I looked up the 2015 Mustang and C&D (notoriously fast testers) got 4.5 and 13.0@113, vs, 4.0 and 12.4@116 for a 2014 Carrera S.
So in those two contests the difference in favor of the stock 911 (non-GTS) over the stock Mustang is great enough that it overrides the fact they weren't involved in the same test on the same day.
However, 65-115 is a different beast. Three things make the Porsches better equipped for a 0-whatever drag race:
1) rear-engined traction advantage
2) several hundred pounds lighter weight
3) PDK shifts faster
In a 65-115 you have no traction advantage because neither car is in danger of losing traction at full throttle; lighter weight is still a factor but it's smaller because of the fact both cars are already rolling at significant speed and now horsepower and wind drag is a greater determinant of acceleration; I'm sure I shifted during those runs but probably only once, compared to twice or three times in the accel runs.
So I'm not throwing out the possibility that a stock car with the same hp and 75 more torks could slightly outrun the 911 during that set of circumstances.
So in those two contests the difference in favor of the stock 911 (non-GTS) over the stock Mustang is great enough that it overrides the fact they weren't involved in the same test on the same day.
However, 65-115 is a different beast. Three things make the Porsches better equipped for a 0-whatever drag race:
1) rear-engined traction advantage
2) several hundred pounds lighter weight
3) PDK shifts faster
In a 65-115 you have no traction advantage because neither car is in danger of losing traction at full throttle; lighter weight is still a factor but it's smaller because of the fact both cars are already rolling at significant speed and now horsepower and wind drag is a greater determinant of acceleration; I'm sure I shifted during those runs but probably only once, compared to twice or three times in the accel runs.
So I'm not throwing out the possibility that a stock car with the same hp and 75 more torks could slightly outrun the 911 during that set of circumstances.
04-12-2016, 11:15 PM
#49
I'm by no means a speed is everything kinda guy, I think saying "X car is faster and cheaper than your Porsche" is like saying "Wild Turkey is cheaper than your Single Malt and has more alcohol!" but I actually love the look of the new mustang and have driven my buddies new z06 and it's an awesome car too. 911, Mustang, Vette, are psychotically fast and can be had on a reasonable person's salary, which is the awesome part. There are amazing cars for every taste right now, enjoy it before we're all sitting in the back seat of some boring electric drone car.
04-12-2016, 11:47 PM
#50
Drifting
The variables in a street race are many. Documented facts show which car is faster and its no surprise. I really have nothing more to say other than you found your Achilles heel on which to build on. If you ever get your hands on a GT and have a itch to scratch give me a PM. I'll be happy to assist.
Despite your "documented facts" about 0-60 or 0-1420 (and I agree with them completely), when you remove most of the Porsche's drag-racing advantages -- greater traction, faster PDK shifting, and lighter weight -- why does it seem so implausible that the Mustang's extra 75 ft/lbs could more than offset its 300 pound weight disadvantage? I mean, that could be a toss-up either way, there's no clear winner on paper, and the performance was close enough that it reflects just that very fact.
I suspect that if we stripped the badges off and were discussing two hypothetical cars racing from 65-115 or 130, and Car A had 435/400/3500 and car B had 430/325/3200, it wouldn't surprise anybody with any real world experience if the race was extremely close, nor if Car A won slightly.
Can I get an amen, Jimbo?
04-13-2016, 12:31 AM
#51
Instructor
Well I raced a new Z06 on the highway from roughly 50-135 and he couldn't outrun me in my GTS. In some cases I was actually gaining on him. I was actually surprised.
Now, is my GTS faster than a Z06? Absolutely not. I chalked it up to a driver who couldn't shift assuming it was 7mt, or the car was heat soaked. Who knows.
I can tell you that a Mustang GT is not faster than the 991s, let alone a GTS.
Now, is my GTS faster than a Z06? Absolutely not. I chalked it up to a driver who couldn't shift assuming it was 7mt, or the car was heat soaked. Who knows.
I can tell you that a Mustang GT is not faster than the 991s, let alone a GTS.
04-13-2016, 07:48 AM
#52
Drifting
Or you could go do what I did and have more than a bench-racing opinion. Seriously, though, why don't you forget about badges and address the 2nd to last paragraph in Post 50, the "hypothetical" I posed? Funny how if the cars wear badges "A" and "B" rather than Mustang and 911 it doesn't seem preposterous at all. At that point the only thing that seems preposterous is to learn that Car A costs $35,000 and Car B costs $135,000!
04-13-2016, 09:14 AM
#53
Rennlist Member
I don't know where you live but here in South Florida every Musang is moded.
04-13-2016, 09:21 AM
#54
Instructor
Yes, you can tell me that all day long. Or you could go do what I did and have more than a bench-racing opinion. Seriously, though, why don't you forget about badges and address the 2nd to last paragraph in Post 50, the "hypothetical" I posed? Funny how if the cars wear badges "A" and "B" rather than Mustang and 911 it doesn't seem preposterous at all. At that point the only thing that seems preposterous is to learn that Car A costs $35,000 and Car B costs $135,000!
Or you could go do what I did and have more than a bench-racing opinion. Seriously, though, why don't you forget about badges and address the 2nd to last paragraph in Post 50, the "hypothetical" I posed? Funny how if the cars wear badges "A" and "B" rather than Mustang and 911 it doesn't seem preposterous at all. At that point the only thing that seems preposterous is to learn that Car A costs $35,000 and Car B costs $135,000! Also, couldn't care less if Mustang was faster, in this case it's not if it was stock. Like many people are saying that it's probably modded.
I owned both an M5 and a gen 5 Viper just last year and they were both faster than my 911, point is that you don't buy a non turbo 911 to beat everything on the street in a straight line.
04-13-2016, 09:33 AM
#55
Instructor
I went up to the north GA mountains about 4 months ago with a new Z06 with 1000hp Hennessy package. I was outrunning him in the curves.
Z06 owner said that at first the traction control was being too intrusive even in track mode and then he was sliding everywhere with everything off. It could've been his tired as he replaced them to y rated tires. I believe z06 with z07 comes with corsa or something similar.
Another point I am making is that you can take on some serious cars with the 911 with halfway decent skills. Straight line in most cases will be disappointing.
Z06 owner said that at first the traction control was being too intrusive even in track mode and then he was sliding everywhere with everything off. It could've been his tired as he replaced them to y rated tires. I believe z06 with z07 comes with corsa or something similar.
Another point I am making is that you can take on some serious cars with the 911 with halfway decent skills. Straight line in most cases will be disappointing.
04-13-2016, 10:35 AM
#57
Banned
LOL, the variables in a rolling start 65-115 are what, exactly? I was the lead car. Traffic would clear when, say, the car ahead of me got past the truck and moved to the right lane. I would hammer it. At best the Mustang would be hammering it when I did. We'd have maybe a half mile to go, maybe more. Over time the Mustang would close any gap I gained by being first off the grid -- by being the one who got to decide when we would go -- and then he'd hold the distance. Really don't see how I could have screwed that one up.
Despite your "documented facts" about 0-60 or 0-1420 (and I agree with them completely), when you remove most of the Porsche's drag-racing advantages -- greater traction, faster PDK shifting, and lighter weight -- why does it seem so implausible that the Mustang's extra 75 ft/lbs could more than offset its 300 pound weight disadvantage? I mean, that could be a toss-up either way, there's no clear winner on paper, and the performance was close enough that it reflects just that very fact.
I suspect that if we stripped the badges off and were discussing two hypothetical cars racing from 65-115 or 130, and Car A had 435/400/3500 and car B had 430/325/3200, it wouldn't surprise anybody with any real world experience if the race was extremely close, nor if Car A won slightly.
Can I get an amen, Jimbo?
Despite your "documented facts" about 0-60 or 0-1420 (and I agree with them completely), when you remove most of the Porsche's drag-racing advantages -- greater traction, faster PDK shifting, and lighter weight -- why does it seem so implausible that the Mustang's extra 75 ft/lbs could more than offset its 300 pound weight disadvantage? I mean, that could be a toss-up either way, there's no clear winner on paper, and the performance was close enough that it reflects just that very fact.
I suspect that if we stripped the badges off and were discussing two hypothetical cars racing from 65-115 or 130, and Car A had 435/400/3500 and car B had 430/325/3200, it wouldn't surprise anybody with any real world experience if the race was extremely close, nor if Car A won slightly.
Can I get an amen, Jimbo?
What your describing is that he is getting the jump and your trying to keep pace after that. That isn't an even race. That's hard to do even when racing a Honda. If he was in your drag stream that would make matters even worse. That's a situation created for his advantage. Line up side by side next time and the results will astound you.
04-13-2016, 10:45 AM
#58
Drifting
And to be fair, the Mustang guy wasn't being "racey" at all. He was like me -- wanting to get home fast and happy that somebody in a Benz was running interference for us. And like me, he was enjoying the ability to put the hammer down with a half mile of open interstate ahead. He also wasn't drafting me as once we were in the clear he'd move over and we were in different lanes.
No jump, no draft. All motor.
04-13-2016, 10:58 AM
#59
Banned
Sorry, I must not have been clear. He wasn't getting the jump, or he would have run into the back of my car. I was ahead of him, two-lane interstate, car in front of us both that had to clear before we could go.
And to be fair, the Mustang guy wasn't being "racey" at all. He was like me -- wanting to get home fast and happy that somebody in a Benz was running interference for us. And like me, he was enjoying the ability to put the hammer down with a half mile of open interstate ahead. He also wasn't drafting me as once we were in the clear he'd move over and we were in different lanes.
No jump, no draft. All motor.
And to be fair, the Mustang guy wasn't being "racey" at all. He was like me -- wanting to get home fast and happy that somebody in a Benz was running interference for us. And like me, he was enjoying the ability to put the hammer down with a half mile of open interstate ahead. He also wasn't drafting me as once we were in the clear he'd move over and we were in different lanes.
No jump, no draft. All motor.
04-13-2016, 11:14 AM
#60
Drifting
Well clearly you'be outed me as a typical guy who likes to come on the Internet and brag about getting beat in a drag race by a car that costs a hundred g's less than mine.
Cheers!
Cheers!