Fuel prices, Ethanal vs Ethanol Free
03-24-2016, 12:52 PM
#17
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03-24-2016, 01:32 PM
#19
Race Director
Originally Posted by todd92
Ethanol levels are 10% all year. There is no seasonality.
Also, Sonoco makes a 100 octane unleaded with ethanol that I've tried. I know people say you can't tell the difference, but was very noticeable to me. Throttle was way more responsive. Like you put in a can of Red Bull. I know many say it makes zero difference. I noticed otherwise. That's was going from 93 too.
03-24-2016, 01:55 PM
#20
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Ethanol levels are not 10%. Too risky to shot for 10%, and get it with millions of gallons at stake. Ethanol levels do vary by season. Just buy a simple ethanol level testing kit, and you'll easily see. Test takes about 90 seconds to run the test.
03-24-2016, 01:59 PM
#21
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What are the benefits and disadvantages of ethanol from your perspective being in that field?
Also, Sonoco makes a 100 octane unleaded with ethanol that I've tried. I know people say you can't tell the difference, but was very noticeable to me. Throttle was way more responsive. Like you put in a can of Red Bull. I know many say it makes zero difference. I noticed otherwise. That's was going from 93 too.
Also, Sonoco makes a 100 octane unleaded with ethanol that I've tried. I know people say you can't tell the difference, but was very noticeable to me. Throttle was way more responsive. Like you put in a can of Red Bull. I know many say it makes zero difference. I noticed otherwise. That's was going from 93 too.
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...cing-fuel.html
03-24-2016, 02:13 PM
#22
What are the benefits and disadvantages of ethanol from your perspective being in that field?
Also, Sonoco makes a 100 octane unleaded with ethanol that I've tried. I know people say you can't tell the difference, but was very noticeable to me. Throttle was way more responsive. Like you put in a can of Red Bull. I know many say it makes zero difference. I noticed otherwise. That's was going from 93 too.
Also, Sonoco makes a 100 octane unleaded with ethanol that I've tried. I know people say you can't tell the difference, but was very noticeable to me. Throttle was way more responsive. Like you put in a can of Red Bull. I know many say it makes zero difference. I noticed otherwise. That's was going from 93 too.
Disadvantage is long term storage instability, especially in anything with a carburetor.
As for 100 octane, with or without ethanol, if the ECU can advance timing to take advantage of the higher octane, then there will be a real, perceivable performance benefit. I don't know if the 991 ECU can. I'll take your word for it.
You are misinformed. Ethanol is blended into the truck with gasoline at the terminal (blended E10 cannot be shipped via pipeline or vessel). The gasoline component the ethanol is meant to be blended with is formulated to require 10% ethanol to meet the final octane and other specifications. There is no discretion in varying the blend ratios and in fact the 90% component has EPA paperwork associated with it that makes it illegal to sell it unless 10% ethanol is added.
03-24-2016, 05:06 PM
#24
The "up to 10%" nomenclature is there because it is legal to sell E0 up to E10. E10 has 10%, E0 has 0%. Nothing leaves a terminal but one or the other. If a seller wanted to switch from E10 to E0, there would be a period of time when the percentage would drift down from 10% to 0% in the stations tank. Hence the label "up to 10%", which allowed that flexibility without having to relabel the pump. It is quite easy to hit exactly 10%, the components are accurately metered in to the truck, it's easy to put 7200 gallons of gasoline blendstock and 800 gallons of ethanol into a 8000 gal tanker.
The reality is that the amount of ethanol mandated to be blended is so high that almost all gasoline must be E10. Blending ethanol generates renewable fuel credits, which are expensive enough to almost completely discourage selling E0. So when E0 is sold, it has to be priced high enough to make up of for the loss of the renewable credit that would be generated by selling E10.
The difference between summer and winter gas is the same as it always been, RVP and volatility. Winter gas is allowed to have higher RVP, which means it has about 10% butane added. Higher RVP is needed for the fuel to vaporize properly in a carbureted or throttle body injected engine in cold weather. Butane adds to the gasoline supply in the winter, hence the generally lower prices. But it also has less BTU/gal so winter gas is less efficient than summer gas.
There was a period in the 80's when winter gas had MTBE or ethanol in certain regions. It was known as the oxy-fuels program. This was a band-aid attempt by the EPA to force engines of that era to run lean in the winter to reduce CO levels. This has been gone for a very long time, yet there are still the misinformed that will say winter gas has more ethanol.
The reality is that the amount of ethanol mandated to be blended is so high that almost all gasoline must be E10. Blending ethanol generates renewable fuel credits, which are expensive enough to almost completely discourage selling E0. So when E0 is sold, it has to be priced high enough to make up of for the loss of the renewable credit that would be generated by selling E10.
The difference between summer and winter gas is the same as it always been, RVP and volatility. Winter gas is allowed to have higher RVP, which means it has about 10% butane added. Higher RVP is needed for the fuel to vaporize properly in a carbureted or throttle body injected engine in cold weather. Butane adds to the gasoline supply in the winter, hence the generally lower prices. But it also has less BTU/gal so winter gas is less efficient than summer gas.
There was a period in the 80's when winter gas had MTBE or ethanol in certain regions. It was known as the oxy-fuels program. This was a band-aid attempt by the EPA to force engines of that era to run lean in the winter to reduce CO levels. This has been gone for a very long time, yet there are still the misinformed that will say winter gas has more ethanol.
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koala (02-18-2022)
03-24-2016, 05:50 PM
#25
The "up to 10%" nomenclature is there because it is legal to sell E0 up to E10. E10 has 10%, E0 has 0%. Nothing leaves a terminal but one or the other. If a seller wanted to switch from E10 to E0, there would be a period of time when the percentage would drift down from 10% to 0% in the stations tank. Hence the label "up to 10%", which allowed that flexibility without having to relabel the pump. It is quite easy to hit exactly 10%, the components are accurately metered in to the truck, it's easy to put 7200 gallons of gasoline blendstock and 800 gallons of ethanol into a 8000 gal tanker.
The reality is that the amount of ethanol mandated to be blended is so high that almost all gasoline must be E10. Blending ethanol generates renewable fuel credits, which are expensive enough to almost completely discourage selling E0. So when E0 is sold, it has to be priced high enough to make up of for the loss of the renewable credit that would be generated by selling E10.
The difference between summer and winter gas is the same as it always been, RVP and volatility. Winter gas is allowed to have higher RVP, which means it has about 10% butane added. Higher RVP is needed for the fuel to vaporize properly in a carbureted or throttle body injected engine in cold weather. Butane adds to the gasoline supply in the winter, hence the generally lower prices. But it also has less BTU/gal so winter gas is less efficient than summer gas.
There was a period in the 80's when winter gas had MTBE or ethanol in certain regions. It was known as the oxy-fuels program. This was a band-aid attempt by the EPA to force engines of that era to run lean in the winter to reduce CO levels. This has been gone for a very long time, yet there are still the misinformed that will say winter gas has more ethanol.
The reality is that the amount of ethanol mandated to be blended is so high that almost all gasoline must be E10. Blending ethanol generates renewable fuel credits, which are expensive enough to almost completely discourage selling E0. So when E0 is sold, it has to be priced high enough to make up of for the loss of the renewable credit that would be generated by selling E10.
The difference between summer and winter gas is the same as it always been, RVP and volatility. Winter gas is allowed to have higher RVP, which means it has about 10% butane added. Higher RVP is needed for the fuel to vaporize properly in a carbureted or throttle body injected engine in cold weather. Butane adds to the gasoline supply in the winter, hence the generally lower prices. But it also has less BTU/gal so winter gas is less efficient than summer gas.
There was a period in the 80's when winter gas had MTBE or ethanol in certain regions. It was known as the oxy-fuels program. This was a band-aid attempt by the EPA to force engines of that era to run lean in the winter to reduce CO levels. This has been gone for a very long time, yet there are still the misinformed that will say winter gas has more ethanol.
03-24-2016, 06:19 PM
#26
Instructor
The "up to 10%" nomenclature is there because it is legal to sell E0 up to E10. E10 has 10%, E0 has 0%. Nothing leaves a terminal but one or the other. If a seller wanted to switch from E10 to E0, there would be a period of time when the percentage would drift down from 10% to 0% in the stations tank. Hence the label "up to 10%", which allowed that flexibility without having to relabel the pump. It is quite easy to hit exactly 10%, the components are accurately metered in to the truck, it's easy to put 7200 gallons of gasoline blendstock and 800 gallons of ethanol into a 8000 gal tanker.
The reality is that the amount of ethanol mandated to be blended is so high that almost all gasoline must be E10. Blending ethanol generates renewable fuel credits, which are expensive enough to almost completely discourage selling E0. So when E0 is sold, it has to be priced high enough to make up of for the loss of the renewable credit that would be generated by selling E10.
The difference between summer and winter gas is the same as it always been, RVP and volatility. Winter gas is allowed to have higher RVP, which means it has about 10% butane added. Higher RVP is needed for the fuel to vaporize properly in a carbureted or throttle body injected engine in cold weather. Butane adds to the gasoline supply in the winter, hence the generally lower prices. But it also has less BTU/gal so winter gas is less efficient than summer gas.
There was a period in the 80's when winter gas had MTBE or ethanol in certain regions. It was known as the oxy-fuels program. This was a band-aid attempt by the EPA to force engines of that era to run lean in the winter to reduce CO levels. This has been gone for a very long time, yet there are still the misinformed that will say winter gas has more ethanol.
The reality is that the amount of ethanol mandated to be blended is so high that almost all gasoline must be E10. Blending ethanol generates renewable fuel credits, which are expensive enough to almost completely discourage selling E0. So when E0 is sold, it has to be priced high enough to make up of for the loss of the renewable credit that would be generated by selling E10.
The difference between summer and winter gas is the same as it always been, RVP and volatility. Winter gas is allowed to have higher RVP, which means it has about 10% butane added. Higher RVP is needed for the fuel to vaporize properly in a carbureted or throttle body injected engine in cold weather. Butane adds to the gasoline supply in the winter, hence the generally lower prices. But it also has less BTU/gal so winter gas is less efficient than summer gas.
There was a period in the 80's when winter gas had MTBE or ethanol in certain regions. It was known as the oxy-fuels program. This was a band-aid attempt by the EPA to force engines of that era to run lean in the winter to reduce CO levels. This has been gone for a very long time, yet there are still the misinformed that will say winter gas has more ethanol.
