View Poll Results: PDCC ?
Yes
45
49.45%
No
46
50.55%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll
PDCC Poll
Race Car
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,424
Likes: 737
From: Northern Virginia
I have PDCC and like it a lot. I would consider it if ordering a car. If buying CPO or used it would be a nice to have but not a deal-breaker if I liked the car and it was optioned close enough to what I wanted.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,466
Likes: 312
From: Midtown Atlanta
I test drove extensively two 2015 S cars with PASM (not SPASM), trying to discern a reason to pay 4K for PDCC (isn't that what it costs? I can't remember for sure but I think it was that much.) In the end I decided:
A) if it was a "free" option and you could order with or without, I'd order without.
B) if I wasn't ordering but found an otherwise perfect car on a lot with PDCC I'd probably buy it (in other words, it wouldn't kill the deal on a perfect car, but I didn't like it.)
C) when ordering, paying $4k extra for something I actually didn't like as well as NOT having it was ludicrous so that decision was a no-brainier.
I wound up ordering SPASM, no PDCC.
A) if it was a "free" option and you could order with or without, I'd order without.
B) if I wasn't ordering but found an otherwise perfect car on a lot with PDCC I'd probably buy it (in other words, it wouldn't kill the deal on a perfect car, but I didn't like it.)
C) when ordering, paying $4k extra for something I actually didn't like as well as NOT having it was ludicrous so that decision was a no-brainier.
I wound up ordering SPASM, no PDCC.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,010
Likes: 193
From: A Little West of Zion NP
When I bought my car I test drove a couple cars. The second one had PDCC, but I didn't know it at the time. The first corner I was able to push the car, I thought felt odd. After a couple more corners I couldn't put my finger on it, but it felt synthesized, artificial. It then occurred to me that it was equipped with PDCC--which was confirmed later. I didn't really enjoy it. I understand it is something you acclimate to as well as being objectively quicker. My concern would be the added complexity. I have the DSC module for my car (uninstalled until spring) and it will be interesting to see the affect that has. I hope Larry's right.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,158
Likes: 175
From: Northern VA and Central FL
Help Mongo understand this - because this stuff is confusing.
SPASM uses magneto fluid to stiffen the dampers/shock absorbers themselves - correct? This fluid can be engaged or disengaged at the push of a button. Actually I think it was a port that allows the fluid to take a long path or a short path thus changing the stiffness.
PDCC is a hydraulic piston within the control linkage between the shock absorber's drop linkage and the sway bar. This puts additional torque/twist into the swap bar to prevent the car from rolling - correct?
SPASM uses magneto fluid to stiffen the dampers/shock absorbers themselves - correct? This fluid can be engaged or disengaged at the push of a button. Actually I think it was a port that allows the fluid to take a long path or a short path thus changing the stiffness.
PDCC is a hydraulic piston within the control linkage between the shock absorber's drop linkage and the sway bar. This puts additional torque/twist into the swap bar to prevent the car from rolling - correct?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,195
Likes: 8
I'll go one step further. Part of the reason I got the base car over the GTS was that I didn't want PASM (put coilovers on with GT3 swaybars). PDCC felt very fake and further robbed me blind of any feeling that was not already robbed by PASM.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 26,145
Likes: 3,907
From: S.F Bay Area
Help Mongo understand this - because this stuff is confusing.
SPASM uses magneto fluid to stiffen the dampers/shock absorbers themselves - correct? This fluid can be engaged or disengaged at the push of a button. Actually I think it was a port that allows the fluid to take a long path or a short path thus changing the stiffness.
SPASM uses magneto fluid to stiffen the dampers/shock absorbers themselves - correct? This fluid can be engaged or disengaged at the push of a button. Actually I think it was a port that allows the fluid to take a long path or a short path thus changing the stiffness.
toggles between "normal" rates of damping and "sport" which is more aggressive, thus stiffening the suspension.
Note that PASM-S is "simply" PASM with more aggressive springs and ARBs/swaybars (and perhaps different shocks and or programming TBC)
in order to transfer load from the outside to the inside thus flattening the
car, reducing roll, further when the car is not cornering the system effectively
disconnects the ARBs (removes any pre-load) thus any bumps etc do not
transfer from movement in the ARB into the suspension, thus the ride
should be smoother/softer
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 26,145
Likes: 3,907
From: S.F Bay Area
Pressing the button with PDCC on it does nothing with regard to the PDCC. That button is the SPASM/PASM button that controls whether you are in normal or sport. That's all. They just put PDCC on the button because buyers wanted it there. PDCC is always on.
What you are describing would be on any SPASM/PASM car, with or without PDCC. Though I'm guessing you have PASM, rather than SPASM, as driving around in sport on a SPASM car on the street is extremely firm
What you are describing would be on any SPASM/PASM car, with or without PDCC. Though I'm guessing you have PASM, rather than SPASM, as driving around in sport on a SPASM car on the street is extremely firm
However what we are still comparing is a "conventional" suspension (using
static ARBs/swaybars) vs. a system with dynamic, hydraulically adjustable ARBs/swaybars
If the former is an 'apple' and the 'latter' an 'orange' then I think such a comparison is always apples to oranges ... I dont think that the degree
of 'aggressiveness' (effectively the degree of damping) determines if its
"apples to apples" or not...
The question in my mind is "does a dynamic ARB work better than a simple mechanical one?" - the answer is probably/potentially yes, since if the system
is dynamic and fast enough the amount of force transfer should be better
in the dynamic system ...
The fact that the PDCC ARBs are effectively "disconnected" when the car is
not turning to give it that "Lincoln Town Car" ride in a straight line is
neither here nor there to me ... its a matter of taste
I personally don't think the 911 needs a dynamic ARB system, its suspension is
already very aggressively damped, and it has a low CoG vs the SUVs on
which these systems evolved.
Also, PASM is capable of addressing lateral weight transfer during cornering
one of the reasons I am a fan of the TPC-DSC module ... thus obviating
the need for yet another weight and complexity contributing system on the
cars suspension!
(*) ARB Anti-Roll Bar (what we Brits call swaybars)
Happy New Year!
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Race Director
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 13,163
Likes: 3,919
I was simply referring to the fact that PASM and SPASM are noticeably different, and comparing a PASM/PDCC car with a plain SPASM car is not a good way to assess PDCC, because the PASM/SPASM difference muddies the water. I would compare a SPASM/PDCC car with a plain SPASM car in order to really isolate the PDCC effect.
To me, all these different suspension differences, including the X73 on my Cayman, are simply movement along a continuum from soft to firm, with PDCC being that last element on the far right that basically eliminates body roll and allows the car to corner just a bit quicker. Basically, everything Porsche shows in the video comparing PASM/SPASM/PDCC is exactly the way I feel it when I drive these cars.
To me, all these different suspension differences, including the X73 on my Cayman, are simply movement along a continuum from soft to firm, with PDCC being that last element on the far right that basically eliminates body roll and allows the car to corner just a bit quicker. Basically, everything Porsche shows in the video comparing PASM/SPASM/PDCC is exactly the way I feel it when I drive these cars.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 26,145
Likes: 3,907
From: S.F Bay Area
I was simply referring to the fact that PASM and SPASM are noticeably different, and comparing a PASM/PDCC car with a plain SPASM car is not a good way to assess PDCC, because the PASM/SPASM difference muddies the water. I would compare a SPASM/PDCC car with a plain SPASM car in order to really isolate the PDCC effect.
To me, all these different suspension differences, including the X73 on my Cayman, are simply movement along a continuum from soft to firm, with PDCC being that last element on the far right that basically eliminates body roll and allows the car to corner just a bit quicker. Basically, everything Porsche shows in the video comparing PASM/SPASM/PDCC is exactly the way I feel it when I drive these cars.
To me, all these different suspension differences, including the X73 on my Cayman, are simply movement along a continuum from soft to firm, with PDCC being that last element on the far right that basically eliminates body roll and allows the car to corner just a bit quicker. Basically, everything Porsche shows in the video comparing PASM/SPASM/PDCC is exactly the way I feel it when I drive these cars.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 26,145
Likes: 3,907
From: S.F Bay Area
I was simply referring to the fact that PASM and SPASM are noticeably different, and comparing a PASM/PDCC car with a plain SPASM car is not a good way to assess PDCC, because the PASM/SPASM difference muddies the water. I would compare a SPASM/PDCC car with a plain SPASM car in order to really isolate the PDCC effect.
To me, all these different suspension differences, including the X73 on my Cayman, are simply movement along a continuum from soft to firm, with PDCC being that last element on the far right that basically eliminates body roll and allows the car to corner just a bit quicker. Basically, everything Porsche shows in the video comparing PASM/SPASM/PDCC is exactly the way I feel it when I drive these cars.
To me, all these different suspension differences, including the X73 on my Cayman, are simply movement along a continuum from soft to firm, with PDCC being that last element on the far right that basically eliminates body roll and allows the car to corner just a bit quicker. Basically, everything Porsche shows in the video comparing PASM/SPASM/PDCC is exactly the way I feel it when I drive these cars.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 799
Likes: 10
From: London
I have PDCC on my GTS, having driven cars with and without it at Silverstone. On the track I loved it - definitely allowed me to corner more quickly. It's also great for high-intensity driving on the road; you can do things that normal physics would dictate you shouldn't be able to do.
But there is something a little odd to me about that. I'm not a track guy, I'm a road guy who likes a feeling of total connection to whatever I'm driving or riding. When I test drove the 991.2, which didn't have PDCC (and I know it has improved suspension etc etc so not a strictly fair comparison), I felt I could corner much more intuitively and was aware of what the car was doing more exactly than I am in my own car.
Overall, I like what PDCC brings to my GTS, but it does make it slightly, on some intuitive level, different. I don't think that I would spec it again.
But there is something a little odd to me about that. I'm not a track guy, I'm a road guy who likes a feeling of total connection to whatever I'm driving or riding. When I test drove the 991.2, which didn't have PDCC (and I know it has improved suspension etc etc so not a strictly fair comparison), I felt I could corner much more intuitively and was aware of what the car was doing more exactly than I am in my own car.
Overall, I like what PDCC brings to my GTS, but it does make it slightly, on some intuitive level, different. I don't think that I would spec it again.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 26,145
Likes: 3,907
From: S.F Bay Area
I have PDCC on my GTS, having driven cars with and without it at Silverstone. On the track I loved it - definitely allowed me to corner more quickly. It's also great for high-intensity driving on the road; you can do things that normal physics would dictate you shouldn't be able to do.
But there is something a little odd to me about that. I'm not a track guy, I'm a road guy who likes a feeling of total connection to whatever I'm driving or riding. When I test drove the 991.2, which didn't have PDCC (and I know it has improved suspension etc etc so not a strictly fair comparison), I felt I could corner much more intuitively and was aware of what the car was doing more exactly than I am in my own car.
Overall, I like what PDCC brings to my GTS, but it does make it slightly, on some intuitive level, different. I don't think that I would spec it again.
But there is something a little odd to me about that. I'm not a track guy, I'm a road guy who likes a feeling of total connection to whatever I'm driving or riding. When I test drove the 991.2, which didn't have PDCC (and I know it has improved suspension etc etc so not a strictly fair comparison), I felt I could corner much more intuitively and was aware of what the car was doing more exactly than I am in my own car.
Overall, I like what PDCC brings to my GTS, but it does make it slightly, on some intuitive level, different. I don't think that I would spec it again.
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 17,292
Likes: 2,159
From: Gone. On the Open Road
Just in case some folks don't recognize hyperbole, PDCC doesn't result in a "Lincoln Town Car" ride. When driving on crappy roads it takes the edge off. That's it. The rest of the suspension is just as stiff as it would otherwise be.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,724
Likes: 651
From: SoCal
I've got PDCC with PASM - not SPASM. I bought the car from dealer inventory - I didn't spec it and order it. I've driven 991's with PASM both with and without PDCC back to back. On the street, not on the track.
Yes, there is definitely a difference. Both over rough pavement and especially taking turns like a juvenile delinquent. I like it.
If ordering today would I spec it and pay the $4k? Probably not. $4k pays for a lot of leather covered dash vents...
DaveGee
Yes, there is definitely a difference. Both over rough pavement and especially taking turns like a juvenile delinquent. I like it.
If ordering today would I spec it and pay the $4k? Probably not. $4k pays for a lot of leather covered dash vents...
DaveGee
