991.2 first-hand impressions and test drives
12-12-2015, 07:04 PM
#16
Your right...I was skimming through and I saw ducktail..hahaaaa this is how rumors start. Thanks for correcting me...I was up all last night on the configurator looking for sports design package but couldn't find it.
12-12-2015, 08:12 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
I would really appreciate if somebody could take a photo of that new red leather with some form of white balance reference.
You don't need an actual photographer's white balance card. A clean white sheet of paper out of the office copier will do just fine if placed in the picture in the same light.
No fancy camera required either. Cellphone does. If an actual white reference is in the picture we can adjust white balance post-posting.
You don't need an actual photographer's white balance card. A clean white sheet of paper out of the office copier will do just fine if placed in the picture in the same light.
No fancy camera required either. Cellphone does. If an actual white reference is in the picture we can adjust white balance post-posting.
... but with the saturation that off-kilter, there's not much hope of fixing it.
12-15-2015, 03:01 PM
#18
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2014
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I have just come back from a 1 hour test drive in the new 991.2. It was a 370hp with sport chrono, no rear steer or lifting front, no sports exhaust.
It was a strange experience.
Sitting in a 991.2 is the same as sitting in the 991, but for the new multi function steering wheel and PCM. Yes the switches have been smoothed off a bit too, but there is no real difference.. But get this....the new shiny super sport multi function steering wheel is made out of plastic. All that shiny chrome is plastic, not metal like 991 wheel. The PDK levers have changed design slightly and are still metal, but anything that is not leather on the wheel is plastic. Oh and because the rim diameter is now smaller, it does actually manage to obscure all the dials on the dash board.
The PCM looks and feels really good to use. It has the same type of “gorilla” glass that is used on the i phone. Only flicked through it briefly but it seemed intuitive and worked well.
So the big question. The engine, the noise, the feel... Now I am used to a 400hp S and 430hp GTS engine configurations, I have never driven a car with the 360hp.
This 991.2 had 370hp. So it was always going to be different to what I am used to driving.
I could have cried. It is so quiet. And I really mean that...it is so quiet.
When driving the only noises I could hear were random whistles and whooshes when I took my foot of the throttle.
It is all very disconcerting. There is no real noise to signify the build up of engine speed, no exhaust or turbo noise. Just wind noise.
The lack of engine noise together with the very flat torque curve disconnects you even more from the driving experience. It doesn’t matter what gear you are in, between 2,500 and 4,500 rpm the car just pulls the same… There is no surge or build up, its just there. In manual mode you find yourself looking at the rev counter all the time to see if you need to be changing gear. This lack of noise and engine surge makes it very hard to connect with the car and enjoy the speed you are undoubtly travelling. Also with no boost in power or engine noise at higher revs, you don’t feel the urge to push to high revs.
Yes the car is fast, but you are loosing even more connection with the car when you can't hear what the engine is doing and when it doesn’t matter where you are in the rev band.
I was excited to see what would happen when I pushed the Sports Response Button on the “manettino” because it will “prepare the transmission for an extended 20sec burst of extra acceleration” or so it says…. I pushed it while in manual and a notice on the dash appeared saying “only available in PDK mode” …Put into auto and push the button again…and…
ALL it does is change you down to the lowest possible gear, thus putting the car at about 6,000 revs.. Its not a boost button, there is no over boost… Its really a “kick down button”..
So when you are in PDK mode driving along at 45mph in 7th gear and need to over take, you push the button and it will drop you to second gear…The dash counts down 20 seconds and if you have not accelerated by then it put you back in 7th gear…. Its a cheap, wrongly named gimmick.. I would be quite embarrassed to show it to anyone in the car..
It is most definitely not what I was hoping for....
I am not coming down hard on the car because I am waiting for my GTS.
If anything I think I have been quite lenient in my "non" professional write up..
I wanted it to be a great car, if I don't keep my GTS forever what am I going to buy next?
I have loved a lot of 911's. I love the 991.1. But the new car is different. It looks like a 991, goes around corners and holds the road like a 911 but it DOES NOT DRIVE like 911. I hope that makes some sense. I have pics but can't seem to post at the moment.
It was a strange experience.
Sitting in a 991.2 is the same as sitting in the 991, but for the new multi function steering wheel and PCM. Yes the switches have been smoothed off a bit too, but there is no real difference.. But get this....the new shiny super sport multi function steering wheel is made out of plastic. All that shiny chrome is plastic, not metal like 991 wheel. The PDK levers have changed design slightly and are still metal, but anything that is not leather on the wheel is plastic. Oh and because the rim diameter is now smaller, it does actually manage to obscure all the dials on the dash board.
The PCM looks and feels really good to use. It has the same type of “gorilla” glass that is used on the i phone. Only flicked through it briefly but it seemed intuitive and worked well.
So the big question. The engine, the noise, the feel... Now I am used to a 400hp S and 430hp GTS engine configurations, I have never driven a car with the 360hp.
This 991.2 had 370hp. So it was always going to be different to what I am used to driving.
I could have cried. It is so quiet. And I really mean that...it is so quiet.
When driving the only noises I could hear were random whistles and whooshes when I took my foot of the throttle.
It is all very disconcerting. There is no real noise to signify the build up of engine speed, no exhaust or turbo noise. Just wind noise.
The lack of engine noise together with the very flat torque curve disconnects you even more from the driving experience. It doesn’t matter what gear you are in, between 2,500 and 4,500 rpm the car just pulls the same… There is no surge or build up, its just there. In manual mode you find yourself looking at the rev counter all the time to see if you need to be changing gear. This lack of noise and engine surge makes it very hard to connect with the car and enjoy the speed you are undoubtly travelling. Also with no boost in power or engine noise at higher revs, you don’t feel the urge to push to high revs.
Yes the car is fast, but you are loosing even more connection with the car when you can't hear what the engine is doing and when it doesn’t matter where you are in the rev band.
I was excited to see what would happen when I pushed the Sports Response Button on the “manettino” because it will “prepare the transmission for an extended 20sec burst of extra acceleration” or so it says…. I pushed it while in manual and a notice on the dash appeared saying “only available in PDK mode” …Put into auto and push the button again…and…
ALL it does is change you down to the lowest possible gear, thus putting the car at about 6,000 revs.. Its not a boost button, there is no over boost… Its really a “kick down button”..
So when you are in PDK mode driving along at 45mph in 7th gear and need to over take, you push the button and it will drop you to second gear…The dash counts down 20 seconds and if you have not accelerated by then it put you back in 7th gear…. Its a cheap, wrongly named gimmick.. I would be quite embarrassed to show it to anyone in the car..
It is most definitely not what I was hoping for....
I am not coming down hard on the car because I am waiting for my GTS.
If anything I think I have been quite lenient in my "non" professional write up..
I wanted it to be a great car, if I don't keep my GTS forever what am I going to buy next?
I have loved a lot of 911's. I love the 991.1. But the new car is different. It looks like a 991, goes around corners and holds the road like a 911 but it DOES NOT DRIVE like 911. I hope that makes some sense. I have pics but can't seem to post at the moment.
Last edited by OMG Noooooo....; 12-15-2015 at 04:11 PM. Reason: A bit more to add...had to run off for tea and crumpets..
12-15-2015, 03:43 PM
#21
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Man alive, that does not sound good (no pun intended). I'm testing an S on Thursday and will report back after that. I'm genuinely open-minded about it, mostly because I've developed some back problems and concommitant mild regret about not getting the 18-way seats in my GTS (I have the 4-ways). I also really like the idea of rear-axle steering. So if I love the car and the right deal is offered I could maybe be persuaded.
That said, no matter how far I drive my GTS in a day or how many times I have to wedge in and yank out my stupid five-quid back support from Halfords, all I can think about is when I get to drive it again. I wonder if the new car will do that...
Keep those first impressions coming, people. Somehow I think this thread will be more informative than the professional reviews. They have to move with the times because that's their job. We are free to vote with our wallets to stop at the moment in time that we think is best.
That said, no matter how far I drive my GTS in a day or how many times I have to wedge in and yank out my stupid five-quid back support from Halfords, all I can think about is when I get to drive it again. I wonder if the new car will do that...
Keep those first impressions coming, people. Somehow I think this thread will be more informative than the professional reviews. They have to move with the times because that's their job. We are free to vote with our wallets to stop at the moment in time that we think is best.
12-15-2015, 03:53 PM
#22
Race Director
Originally Posted by MagicRat
Keep those first impressions coming, people. Somehow I think this thread will be more informative than the professional reviews. They have to move with the times because that's their job. We are free to vote with our wallets to stop at the moment in time that we think is best.
It ain't gonna be pretty ....
12-15-2015, 03:55 PM
#23
Race Director
Originally Posted by OMG Noooooo....
I have just come back from a 1 hour test drive in the new 991.2. It was a 370hp with sport chrono, no rear steer or lifting front, no sports exhaust.
It was a strange experience.
Sitting in a 991.2 is the same as sitting in the 991, but for the new multi function steering wheel and PCM. Yes the switches have been smoothed off a bit too, but there is no real difference.. But get this....the new shiny super sport multi function steering wheel is made out of plastic. All that shiny chrome is plastic, not metal like 991 wheel. The PDK levers have changed design slightly and are still metal, but anything that is not leather on the wheel is plastic. Oh and because the rim diameter is now smaller, it does actually manage to obscure all the dials on the dash board.
The PCM looks and feels really good to use. It has the same type of “gorilla” glass that is used on the i phone. Only flicked through it briefly but it seemed intuitive and worked well.
So the big question. The engine, the noise, the feel... Now I am used to a 400hp S and 430hp GTS engine configurations, I have never driven a car with the 360hp.
This 991.2 had 370hp. So it was always going to be different to what I am used to driving.
I could have cried. It is so quiet. And I really mean that...it is so quiet.
When driving the only noises I could hear were random whistles and whooshes when I took my foot of the throttle.
It is all very disconcerting. There is no real noise to signify the build up of engine speed, no exhaust or turbo noise. Just wind noise.
It was a strange experience.
Sitting in a 991.2 is the same as sitting in the 991, but for the new multi function steering wheel and PCM. Yes the switches have been smoothed off a bit too, but there is no real difference.. But get this....the new shiny super sport multi function steering wheel is made out of plastic. All that shiny chrome is plastic, not metal like 991 wheel. The PDK levers have changed design slightly and are still metal, but anything that is not leather on the wheel is plastic. Oh and because the rim diameter is now smaller, it does actually manage to obscure all the dials on the dash board.
The PCM looks and feels really good to use. It has the same type of “gorilla” glass that is used on the i phone. Only flicked through it briefly but it seemed intuitive and worked well.
So the big question. The engine, the noise, the feel... Now I am used to a 400hp S and 430hp GTS engine configurations, I have never driven a car with the 360hp.
This 991.2 had 370hp. So it was always going to be different to what I am used to driving.
I could have cried. It is so quiet. And I really mean that...it is so quiet.
When driving the only noises I could hear were random whistles and whooshes when I took my foot of the throttle.
It is all very disconcerting. There is no real noise to signify the build up of engine speed, no exhaust or turbo noise. Just wind noise.
Amazing write up. Very eye-opening to many I'm sure. More will follow ...
It's interesting, I've been talking to a lot of high-volume dealers, and preorders for the new car are virtually nil. Seems like a lot of people are waiting for first drives to make judgments and commitments. If this is any indication, someone should be concerned.
Please don't split up the forums. This is going to be some good reading coming up.
And to all the critics, I have no problem trading up to the latest and greatest with things in my life. Trust me. This ain't one of them.
12-15-2015, 04:13 PM
#24
Nordschleife Master
Thanks for the review Magic. What a lot of reviewers have been raving about it the steering, that it is better than the 991.1. What were your impressions of the steering - better, same?
12-15-2015, 04:29 PM
#25
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Silverstone, Great Britain.
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All that shiny "chrome" is in fact plastic..
12-15-2015, 04:35 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
I had a 2 hr test drive today in a 991.2 S.
Configuration included:
- rear steer
- sport chrono
- front lift
- GT steering wheel
- Sports exhaust
- PDK
- 18 way seats
- Spyder wheels
- etc, etc...almost a full loaded car
Speed - It's F.A.S.T. In the right gear and WOT, it's OMG Fast. Certainly quicker than my current 4S....but not as much as I was expecting. Although it does get to 200kph on the autobahn a whole lot easier than my 991.1.
Ride - Rides much better than my 991.1 which has the same 305 section rear tyres so it's a direct comparison. A nice surprise.
PCM - much better. Very responsive screen with better graphics
Rear Steer - didn't notice it. Not the right roads or corners.
Sport Steering Wheel - The smaller diameter is a very nice size and feels good in the hand. Yes it's plastic but so is the 991.1 wheel.
Engine response - now this really, really surprised me. I was expecting a much bigger punch of torque down low considering that it claims it's got 500NM at 1,750 rpm. But it felt much more linear as if they have tried to make it feel like a NA engine i.e. the power builds gradually. And I did not notice any real turbo lag. I responded when I wanted it to.
Top end - it's got a huge top end. Sure the peak RPM is lower than the 9A1, but it still has that OMG rush at the top end of its rev range like the NA engine and it is still nice to take it there....not that you get much of a chance to do so given the speeds you have to hit to get it there. Shorter gearing would be nicer in the lower gears.
Steering - Did not really notice any great different to my 4S....but I have always thought that the 4S steering was better than the 2S anyway because IMHO the front drive axle gives you better feedback
PDK - Sharper, but when you are really on it....maybe too sharp. Even in just Sport mode the gears thumped home when you are deep into the throttle. On a light to medium throttle, it short shifts too much IMO. Would like it to hold the gears a bit longer.
Sport response button - does exactly what it claims, i.e. goes straight into sport plus, changes down 2-3 gears, hits 6000rpm for 20sec. It is not an over boost button, nor has Porsche claimed it to be as reported above. It does what exactly what Porsche says it does.....but it is a bit of gimmick. With the torque, you don't need it.
Rear grille - on the black car I drove, it looked ok. Also saw it on a silver car which also look ok....so not as offensive as the pictures make out
Sound - Now for the crunch point. Inside the car it is definitely quieter...much quieter....even with the PSE engaged. It still sounds like a 911 but is nowhere near as loud as the 991.1. It's probably somewhere between a stock exhaust and a PSE. The burbles on overrun are pretty much the same though.
In addition to losing the exhaust sound, you also lose that "mechanical" sound that is mixed in with the exhaust. One of the things I have always liked with the 991.1 is that you can hear, nay almost feel, the drive train whine from the gears and the engine all working together. It just doesn't come thru on the 991.2.
Bizarrely, the exhaust sounds much better on the outside. When my sales guy drove away, it sounded quite good...quite meaty with very nice pops on the up shifts.
Now for me, this makes the car less visceral. No doubt it's a better car but it did not make the impact on me as I thought it would. I was expecting a much bigger punch. After the drive, I stepped straight back into my 4S and thought....this good....this is enough.
So I hate to admit it....but I am going to rethink my order. I definitely need another, longer test drive.
Adding one extra comment after thinking about the experience a little bit longer.
I wanted it to be an exciting car. To feel just like I felt when I first drove the 991.1....but it just didn't. It was a bit of a disappointment. There...I said it.
Configuration included:
- rear steer
- sport chrono
- front lift
- GT steering wheel
- Sports exhaust
- PDK
- 18 way seats
- Spyder wheels
- etc, etc...almost a full loaded car
Speed - It's F.A.S.T. In the right gear and WOT, it's OMG Fast. Certainly quicker than my current 4S....but not as much as I was expecting. Although it does get to 200kph on the autobahn a whole lot easier than my 991.1.
Ride - Rides much better than my 991.1 which has the same 305 section rear tyres so it's a direct comparison. A nice surprise.
PCM - much better. Very responsive screen with better graphics
Rear Steer - didn't notice it. Not the right roads or corners.
Sport Steering Wheel - The smaller diameter is a very nice size and feels good in the hand. Yes it's plastic but so is the 991.1 wheel.
Engine response - now this really, really surprised me. I was expecting a much bigger punch of torque down low considering that it claims it's got 500NM at 1,750 rpm. But it felt much more linear as if they have tried to make it feel like a NA engine i.e. the power builds gradually. And I did not notice any real turbo lag. I responded when I wanted it to.
Top end - it's got a huge top end. Sure the peak RPM is lower than the 9A1, but it still has that OMG rush at the top end of its rev range like the NA engine and it is still nice to take it there....not that you get much of a chance to do so given the speeds you have to hit to get it there. Shorter gearing would be nicer in the lower gears.
Steering - Did not really notice any great different to my 4S....but I have always thought that the 4S steering was better than the 2S anyway because IMHO the front drive axle gives you better feedback
PDK - Sharper, but when you are really on it....maybe too sharp. Even in just Sport mode the gears thumped home when you are deep into the throttle. On a light to medium throttle, it short shifts too much IMO. Would like it to hold the gears a bit longer.
Sport response button - does exactly what it claims, i.e. goes straight into sport plus, changes down 2-3 gears, hits 6000rpm for 20sec. It is not an over boost button, nor has Porsche claimed it to be as reported above. It does what exactly what Porsche says it does.....but it is a bit of gimmick. With the torque, you don't need it.
Rear grille - on the black car I drove, it looked ok. Also saw it on a silver car which also look ok....so not as offensive as the pictures make out
Sound - Now for the crunch point. Inside the car it is definitely quieter...much quieter....even with the PSE engaged. It still sounds like a 911 but is nowhere near as loud as the 991.1. It's probably somewhere between a stock exhaust and a PSE. The burbles on overrun are pretty much the same though.
In addition to losing the exhaust sound, you also lose that "mechanical" sound that is mixed in with the exhaust. One of the things I have always liked with the 991.1 is that you can hear, nay almost feel, the drive train whine from the gears and the engine all working together. It just doesn't come thru on the 991.2.
Bizarrely, the exhaust sounds much better on the outside. When my sales guy drove away, it sounded quite good...quite meaty with very nice pops on the up shifts.
Now for me, this makes the car less visceral. No doubt it's a better car but it did not make the impact on me as I thought it would. I was expecting a much bigger punch. After the drive, I stepped straight back into my 4S and thought....this good....this is enough.
So I hate to admit it....but I am going to rethink my order. I definitely need another, longer test drive.
Adding one extra comment after thinking about the experience a little bit longer.
I wanted it to be an exciting car. To feel just like I felt when I first drove the 991.1....but it just didn't. It was a bit of a disappointment. There...I said it.
Last edited by Chris3963; 12-15-2015 at 05:48 PM.
12-15-2015, 04:44 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
Reading with interest. Have a 991.2 C2s on order. I might be fine as my only 911 drive was a test in a 991.1 C4. From reading the reviews, I was not expecting different from the sports response button. Seems like a button I will use rarely if ever. Not sure the flat power delivery will bother me at all. I have ridden many bikes with very different power characteristics and adapted to them pretty quickly. But great to read these driving experiences. Negative reviews are always much more informative!
12-15-2015, 04:51 PM
#29
Thank you very much to all those who took the time to write these extensive reviews and post pics. They are most valuable and informative. You are the sort of guys that make this forum very useful.
Here in the US, we don't get to test drive the 991.2 until late March. I have one on order, so I really appreciate the early impressions and being able to go into this better informed.
Here in the US, we don't get to test drive the 991.2 until late March. I have one on order, so I really appreciate the early impressions and being able to go into this better informed.
12-15-2015, 04:51 PM
#30
Race Director
OMG and Chris, great writing skills and reviews.
Getting a real world buyer and current owners view is priceless. I don't trust most of these paid shills disguised as journalists. Some of the talent in the RL community is amazing. Keep up the good work.
Getting a real world buyer and current owners view is priceless. I don't trust most of these paid shills disguised as journalists. Some of the talent in the RL community is amazing. Keep up the good work.