hinckley

Thanks for the input Gordy. The S4 really is a sleeper car. I wish your sales guy was right, but I'm afraid it's just one more case of the car buyer knowing more than the seller. AOA has been pretty clear - DCT on the A4 (MT available on some lesser models in Europe) and AT on the S4. I seems crazy but there is precedent of sorts with Audi - the S7 has a DCT, whereas the RS7 has a AT.

thomnellie

I'd stick with an Audi. Best cars I've ever driven in snow. They go absolutely anywhere, will easily go through snow higher than the bumper, and Audi's all wheel drive is the best on the market: absolutely transparent and easy to get controllable lift throttle oversteer.

mmblz

Land Rover evoque diesel manual. Haven't driven, might not meet the sporty criteria.

I have an 08 Range Rover. Not MT and not sporty, but I can live with that for its ultimate comfort and capability.

MJBird993

Bummed am I to read earlier in the thread that Audi has dropped the MT for all A/S4 models.

Two questions:
1) Is not the LR Evoque a hideous, ugly, distressing vehicle to look at?
2) What has your experience been with RR reliability?

mmblz

I like the look of the evoque as far as small SUVs go. I think there's a reason it's their top selling car.
Reliability has been good for me. Bought used, had it 3 years now. No big surprises. Some work in the front suspension to stop rattling. Control arms or ball joints or something. But I've had that in other cars too. Had to replace brakes sooner than I'd like, but it's a heavy car!
Range Rover sport SVR would get back sportiness, but no manual.
I actually like the style of my 08 RR better than newer ones, they're starting to look just a bit more mainstream and less distinctive.

hinckley

I went onto the LR US configurator and I don't believe that this is a model (or a transmission) available here. If I go the AT SUV route, it'll be the Macan.

So now I'm thinking . . . 340ix MT, Macan PDK, S4 AT. I wish I liked the BMW more.

mmblz

you're right .. apparently it never bothered to ask for a country.
you know those americans - don't know how to use a shift...

mmblz

just to further muddy the waters - and falling squarely outside the "luxury" criteria... Mini Cooper Clubman or Paceman both available in John Cooper Works with AWD and MT

kwikit356

If I recall correctly, an Audi engineer told a writer from Jalopnik that the reason the new S4 had to go with an AT, as opposed to the DCT, is that the new motor has a little too much torque for the current DCT. Said engineer seemed to indicate that this problem would be addressed fairly soon. If the AT in the new S4 is the same one that BMW uses as an AT (8-speed with paddles), then it's okay, but certainly no PDK in any respect. I still think the Audi S4 is the best car among your choices (just my opinion), but like every car it seems to have grown a little. I'm not certain about the following, but here are the lengths I remember: 1. New Audi A4/S4= 185"; 2. BMW F30 3 Series= 183"; 7th Gen VW Golf/GTi/R= 168"; Newest MINI 2 door JCW= 151+".

I had a MY '12 F30 BMW 335i with the 8-speed AT. I did not particularly like how big it felt, but it was tolerable for me. However, even though the steering was very accurate, it was totally disconnected from the road. My winter car is a 4-door '91 E30 325i with 225k miles, with steering nearly as good a 993.

I've also been looking for a new driver/winter car. This time I'm not going to get something as big as the F30/S4, though the S4 would be terribly tempting if it were available with the DCT. I agree with other posters that the Audi AWD system is the best. However, I have not had the opportunity to drive the VW Golf R yet.

There is also one consideration putting a "monkey-wrench" in all of my thinking: I need a track car that can also serve as a daily driver. It needs to be significantly less expensive than anything Porsche builds, preferably under $50k new, and big enough to haul a fair amount of gear, a good-sized dog, and me. Enter the VW Golf R and maybe even the 2-door MINI Cooper JCW. I've driven a new series Golf Gti with the DSG gearbox. I suppose it's better than an AT, but again it was no PDK. The size of the Golf is good for Boston streets/roads/traffic; probably also good for your parking space. The MINI 2-door JCW is kind of a hoot to drive, even though it is FWD. The torque-steer problem is far better resolved than before. The size is good for me, but I can see some of my bigger friends preferring to ride on it's roof. I am average size I guess, at 6'/185 lbs (not kilos!).

As for winter driving in Boston/Northeast US, I have found that good snow tires on all four wheels make nearly any car with enough road clearance workable. My '91 E30 does have an LSD, which makes a big difference with RWD and a light rear-end. Having four snow tires on it means I can do just about anything and go anywhere, including driving sideways whenever it's safe to do so. I imagine the Golf R would be fantastic, set up with snow tires. You can also get bigger MINIs with AWD, but I've never driven one, and the motor is sideways. Like BMW's system with front-to-back motors?

As to the luxury category, Audi wins here hands-down. Unless you go to the Rrange Rover, which sounds like a too-large solution for Boston and your parking space. And to those of you who, like me, do not live right in an expensive city like Boston (and of course many, many others), an off-street space, uncovered, and maybe even blocked-in by another owned space, can cost more than a small house in the farther out suburbs. And, that house would have a driveway with a two-car garage. Having said all that, I do love Boston. I just cannot afford to live there and have my multiple toys.

I can't wait to hear what you decide to get. The chase is the most fun of all, and as long as you are in that mode you're having fun without spending the money. Once we catch the "car of a lifetime" it does seem that the itch for another chase begins all over again. Go, I love being just a big kid.

Happy Holidays to everyone! No snow yet in New England. The GTS is put away, but I'm driving my 993 coupe every single day that it's not raining. Putting off buying a snow blower as long as El Nino keeps jamming the jet stream up north. I actually saw guys out playing golf in NH last Saturday. I can't decide whether we already paid for this nice weather with last winter, or if the bill will come due soon.

hinckley

Not a crazy thought at all. There's a new Countryman due out in January I think, and the JCW version may be interesting. I'm thinking it may be a bit more fun to drive than the X1 on which it's based and hopefully Mini will continue to offer MTs on all its models.

kwikit, thanks for the reply. We've got to get together sometime. My 991 is in hibernation just a couple of miles from you. Are you loving your GTS?

As for the S4, mid-180 inches is exactly the size car I'm looking for. I had driven 5 Series for years, and they've now grown to the mid-190s. The size and weight of that car is the primary reason I dumped my F10 M5 MT after just 14 months (ouch!). I've heard similar things about delayed availability of a DCT in the S4, and it kinda bums me out. The new S4 will likely hit the US next November-ish. In time for next winter. But if the DCT is delayed, it would mean that I'd need to wait one more year and not get a new car until the winter of 2017/18. First world problem, huh?

Happy holidays my friend.

mmblz

FWIW I drove an evoque today. LR got a brand new fleet of service loaners. Not only is it AT but you're going to love this... See attached pic. Overall impression I was disappointed. For me a small suv should drive like a car but have a bit more space and ground clearance. The evoque feels like you're still driving an suv. Interior is way above the honda-esque LR2 they always used to give me, but still doesn't feel as luxurious or comfortable as my RR.

hinckley

Ya, I think that LR designed the Evoque for a demographic that doesn't hang out in places like Rennlist. fwiw, I'm down to a 2017 Macan GTS or S4. I'm going to start working on an early-September Macan ED next month, and I'm first on my dealer's list for the new S4. I'll probably need to make a final decision by late-spring.

Larry Cable

both good choices ... although as mentioned the Mini JCW could also be a LOT of fun!

hinckley

So I've had a very interesting revelation over the past few days driving a car that put things in a bit of perspective for me. I'm incredibly lucky to drive beautiful cars like our 911s, but I've come to the realization that my GTS has just spoiled me for anything else. It's such a special car that puts an incredible smile on my face every time I get inside. Last summer, I found myself finding excuses just to take a drive . . . and when I couldn't find an excuse, sometimes I just got in to take a drive anyway. With the GTS as my baseline, no other car put that kind of smile on my face. And although I know I sound like a whining child, I'm having a really hard time spending $70, $80 or $100k on any car that I don't just really love. Damn you, Porsche.

So what provoked this grand revelation? Tesla.

On Friday, I drove a Model S 85D, and yesterday, I took an extended drive in a P85. OMFG. Talk about a special car. The acceleration and handling is just sick. This thing is almost Lamborghini or Bugatti fast. And the interior luxury and tech are over the top. The car is bigger than what I'd like. It has no MT (or any "T" for that matter!). But talk about an all-day, ear-to-ear smile. This car is always reviewed as a great "electric" car. In reality, it's a flat-out "performance" car. I don't think the M5 or any Panny can touch this thing. So the Tesla Model S P90D has now zoomed (literally) to the top of my winter car list.

There's a lot to consider moving to an electric vehicle, but it may just fit my driving profile. It's a commitment that I've got to think about carefully. I'm also now wondering about keeping the S4 for snowy winter days. I could rent a garage space and put a set of winter tires on the GTS and drive it on clear winter days. That would give me the joy of driving my 911 all year and would certainly be less expensive than buying a Tesla! More decisions . . . but more clarity.

btw, regardless of whether any of you would actually buy a Tesla, you've just got to drive one. Make sure it's a "P" model. You'll understand . . .

snowcar_C4S

I own an M3, and while many owners drive these cars safely during the winter with a good set of snow tires, I wouldn't for different reasons. If you are able to afford a good winter car, and I am lucky enough to, then I would opt for the Macan. My M3 is simply too nice to be tooling around in the snow, I am just too OCD to be driving it on salted roads. Then there is the practicality issue, for my winter car I drive a Lexus LX570, this vehicle has a very advanced all wheel drive system and has never let me down. I use a set of Nokian's as my winter tires and would recommend these for your proposed choice of a Macan, I've also gone through a set of Pirelli Ice and Snow tires and would also recommend those, last on the list is the Blizzak, the Pirelli's and Nokian's are light years ahead of the Blizzaks. The practicality issue with a winter car is important to me, I can load a bunch of my children into my LX570 with all of our ski/snowboard gear and the 5.7L V8 doesn't even notice. I guess that the question you need to ask yourself is are you looking for sporty or practical, or both. The Macan gives you both, while the M3/4 gives you sporty only IMHO.