How Irritatingly Good Is The Porsche 991 GTS?
07-06-2015, 08:37 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
After reviewing the Porsche website's statements about PASM for the 911 Carrera, 911 Carrera S, and the 911 Carrera GTS, it really appears that PASM in each of the different models lowers the suspension by 10mm from the [U]standard 911 Carrera suspension ride height.[U] I cannot seem to see where there is any indication in Porsche's language that the GTS models (with PASM standard) are any lower than the Carrera S models (where PASM is also standard). SPASM, in each coupe model, is an additional 10mm lower than PASM, for a total ride height reduction (from the standard 911 Carrera) of 20mm.
Then, back to the Chris Harris comment that "...the car is very agile for one so physically big and the combination of 10mm suspension drop over the C2S and the standard PASM suspension with geometry tweaks has released something from the steering." He then goes on to say that the GTS rack is by some margin the sweetest electric rack he's used. We all know what he has said about the GT3 rack being significantly better than any non-GT3 991 rack he had driven before. His GTS drive is later (more recent) than his GT3 drive. Therefore, he has to be saying that the rack in his particular GTS is the best 991 electric rack he has driven to date.
About the tweeks to suspension geometry: Please, somebody who knows a lot more than I do, chime in here. But, just based upon the different spring lengths of std. Carrera, PASM and SPASM, and all the changes involved in the GT3 suspension, wouldn't each of those four configurations have to have different suspension geometry, even without any other change? Porsche went to considerable length to describe the 991 GT3 suspension in detail. If the 991 GTS were to have its own suspension changes from the C2S, other than the changes described in SPASM, it would seem that they would take the opportunity to mention that in their chassis description of the GTS model.
What about Porsche making on-going small changes to the electric steering software? Of course, anything is possible, but Chris Harris' GTS had about 5k miles on it when Porsche gave it to him to drive. That does not mean that Porsche GB had no chance to upload software modifications to the steering before handing the car over to him. Or, Porsche could have done some suspension massaging on this particular GTS, then gave it to Chris. Now they sit back and wait to see what he has to say. Porsche is doing a dance on our heads with all of this, even if they have done nothing at all. Or, are we just dancing on our own heads because we enjoy it.
Probably everyone already knows this, but there are excellent videos on Elephant Racing's website describing the standard 991 Carrera suspension and the 991 GT3 suspension.
What I do know: I just love this damn car, really love it. But, I guess like most 991's, it really wakes up when it realizes you want to play hard. It can do the everyday things in its sleep. Note that I said "it" can do these things, not "I" can. Just so everyone knows, I have almost zero other 991 seat time, very little in any 997, none in any 996, a lot in 993 and 964, adequate in 3.2, 3.0, 2.7 (not RS), and quite a bit in 2.4, 2.2 and 2.0 (but the last 3, a long, long time ago).
Then, back to the Chris Harris comment that "...the car is very agile for one so physically big and the combination of 10mm suspension drop over the C2S and the standard PASM suspension with geometry tweaks has released something from the steering." He then goes on to say that the GTS rack is by some margin the sweetest electric rack he's used. We all know what he has said about the GT3 rack being significantly better than any non-GT3 991 rack he had driven before. His GTS drive is later (more recent) than his GT3 drive. Therefore, he has to be saying that the rack in his particular GTS is the best 991 electric rack he has driven to date.
About the tweeks to suspension geometry: Please, somebody who knows a lot more than I do, chime in here. But, just based upon the different spring lengths of std. Carrera, PASM and SPASM, and all the changes involved in the GT3 suspension, wouldn't each of those four configurations have to have different suspension geometry, even without any other change? Porsche went to considerable length to describe the 991 GT3 suspension in detail. If the 991 GTS were to have its own suspension changes from the C2S, other than the changes described in SPASM, it would seem that they would take the opportunity to mention that in their chassis description of the GTS model.
What about Porsche making on-going small changes to the electric steering software? Of course, anything is possible, but Chris Harris' GTS had about 5k miles on it when Porsche gave it to him to drive. That does not mean that Porsche GB had no chance to upload software modifications to the steering before handing the car over to him. Or, Porsche could have done some suspension massaging on this particular GTS, then gave it to Chris. Now they sit back and wait to see what he has to say. Porsche is doing a dance on our heads with all of this, even if they have done nothing at all. Or, are we just dancing on our own heads because we enjoy it.
Probably everyone already knows this, but there are excellent videos on Elephant Racing's website describing the standard 991 Carrera suspension and the 991 GT3 suspension.
What I do know: I just love this damn car, really love it. But, I guess like most 991's, it really wakes up when it realizes you want to play hard. It can do the everyday things in its sleep. Note that I said "it" can do these things, not "I" can. Just so everyone knows, I have almost zero other 991 seat time, very little in any 997, none in any 996, a lot in 993 and 964, adequate in 3.2, 3.0, 2.7 (not RS), and quite a bit in 2.4, 2.2 and 2.0 (but the last 3, a long, long time ago).
07-06-2015, 08:43 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
After reviewing the Porsche website's statements about PASM for the 911 Carrera, 911 Carrera S, and the 911 Carrera GTS, it really appears that PASM in each of the different models lowers the suspension by 10mm from the [U]standard 911 Carrera suspension ride height.[U] I cannot seem to see where there is any indication in Porsche's language that the GTS models (with PASM standard) are any lower than the Carrera S models (where PASM is also standard). SPASM, in each coupe model, is an additional 10mm lower than PASM, for a total ride height reduction (from the standard 911 Carrera) of 20mm.
Then, back to the Chris Harris comment that "...the car is very agile for one so physically big and the combination of 10mm suspension drop over the C2S and the standard PASM suspension with geometry tweaks has released something from the steering." He then goes on to say that the GTS rack is by some margin the sweetest electric rack he's used. We all know what he has said about the GT3 rack being significantly better than any non-GT3 991 rack he had driven before. His GTS drive is later (more recent) than his GT3 drive. Therefore, he has to be saying that the rack in his particular GTS is the best 991 electric rack he has driven to date.
About the tweeks to suspension geometry: Please, somebody who knows a lot more than I do, chime in here. But, just based upon the different spring lengths of std. Carrera, PASM and SPASM, and all the changes involved in the GT3 suspension, wouldn't each of those four configurations have to have different suspension geometry, even without any other change? Porsche went to considerable length to describe the 991 GT3 suspension in detail. If the 991 GTS were to have its own suspension changes from the C2S, other than the changes described in SPASM, it would seem that they would take the opportunity to mention that in their chassis description of the GTS model.
What about Porsche making on-going small changes to the electric steering software? Of course, anything is possible, but Chris Harris' GTS had about 5k miles on it when Porsche gave it to him to drive. That does not mean that Porsche GB had no chance to upload software modifications to the steering before handing the car over to him. Or, Porsche could have done some suspension massaging on this particular GTS, then gave it to Chris. Now they sit back and wait to see what he has to say. Porsche is doing a dance on our heads with all of this, even if they have done nothing at all. Or, are we just dancing on our own heads because we enjoy it.
Probably everyone already knows this, but there are excellent videos on Elephant Racing's website describing the standard 991 Carrera suspension and the 991 GT3 suspension.
What I do know: I just love this damn car, really love it. But, I guess like most 991's, it really wakes up when it realizes you want to play hard. It can do the everyday things in its sleep. Note that I said "it" can do these things, not "I" can. Just so everyone knows, I have almost zero other 991 seat time, very little in any 997, none in any 996, a lot in 993 and 964, adequate in 3.2, 3.0, 2.7 (not RS), and quite a bit in 2.4, 2.2 and 2.0 (but the last 3, a long, long time ago).
About the tweeks to suspension geometry: Please, somebody who knows a lot more than I do, chime in here. But, just based upon the different spring lengths of std. Carrera, PASM and SPASM, and all the changes involved in the GT3 suspension, wouldn't each of those four configurations have to have different suspension geometry, even without any other change? Porsche went to considerable length to describe the 991 GT3 suspension in detail. If the 991 GTS were to have its own suspension changes from the C2S, other than the changes described in SPASM, it would seem that they would take the opportunity to mention that in their chassis description of the GTS model.
What about Porsche making on-going small changes to the electric steering software? Of course, anything is possible, but Chris Harris' GTS had about 5k miles on it when Porsche gave it to him to drive. That does not mean that Porsche GB had no chance to upload software modifications to the steering before handing the car over to him. Or, Porsche could have done some suspension massaging on this particular GTS, then gave it to Chris. Now they sit back and wait to see what he has to say. Porsche is doing a dance on our heads with all of this, even if they have done nothing at all. Or, are we just dancing on our own heads because we enjoy it.
Probably everyone already knows this, but there are excellent videos on Elephant Racing's website describing the standard 991 Carrera suspension and the 991 GT3 suspension.
What I do know: I just love this damn car, really love it. But, I guess like most 991's, it really wakes up when it realizes you want to play hard. It can do the everyday things in its sleep. Note that I said "it" can do these things, not "I" can. Just so everyone knows, I have almost zero other 991 seat time, very little in any 997, none in any 996, a lot in 993 and 964, adequate in 3.2, 3.0, 2.7 (not RS), and quite a bit in 2.4, 2.2 and 2.0 (but the last 3, a long, long time ago).
07-06-2015, 10:09 PM
#19
Race Director
How Irritatingly Good Is The Porsche 991 GTS?
It's all the same **** boys! There's no mystery bonus that anyone is looking for rather than the obvious. There seems to be some Indiana Jones Holy Grail seekers. The GTS badge does have a placebo effect.
"After reviewing the Porsche website's statements about PASM for the 911 Carrera, 911 Carrera S, and the 911 Carrera GTS, it really appears that PASM in each of the different models lowers the suspension by 10mm from the [U]standard 911 Carrera suspension ride height.[U] I cannot seem to see where there is any indication in Porsche's language that the GTS models (with PASM standard) are any lower than the Carrera S models (where PASM is also standard). SPASM, in each coupe model, is an additional 10mm lower than PASM, for a total ride height reduction (from the standard 911 Carrera) of 20mm."
"After reviewing the Porsche website's statements about PASM for the 911 Carrera, 911 Carrera S, and the 911 Carrera GTS, it really appears that PASM in each of the different models lowers the suspension by 10mm from the [U]standard 911 Carrera suspension ride height.[U] I cannot seem to see where there is any indication in Porsche's language that the GTS models (with PASM standard) are any lower than the Carrera S models (where PASM is also standard). SPASM, in each coupe model, is an additional 10mm lower than PASM, for a total ride height reduction (from the standard 911 Carrera) of 20mm."
07-06-2015, 10:55 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
07-06-2015, 11:06 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
I have been wondering about the steering too and thought Porsche had developed better software over the years since 2012 (assuming same HW between C2S/GTS/GT3).
It would be interesting to see what he thought about the steering in a 2015 C2S vs a GTS. Also wonder if the updated SW would be available as a retrofit for older models (I've had this done by the factory on other cars).
It would be interesting to see what he thought about the steering in a 2015 C2S vs a GTS. Also wonder if the updated SW would be available as a retrofit for older models (I've had this done by the factory on other cars).
07-07-2015, 01:16 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
It's all the same **** boys! There's no mystery bonus that anyone is looking for rather than the obvious. There seems to be some Indiana Jones Holy Grail seekers. The GTS badge does have a placebo effect.
"After reviewing the Porsche website's statements about PASM for the 911 Carrera, 911 Carrera S, and the 911 Carrera GTS, it really appears that PASM in each of the different models lowers the suspension by 10mm from the [U]standard 911 Carrera suspension ride height.[U] I cannot seem to see where there is any indication in Porsche's language that the GTS models (with PASM standard) are any lower than the Carrera S models (where PASM is also standard). SPASM, in each coupe model, is an additional 10mm lower than PASM, for a total ride height reduction (from the standard 911 Carrera) of 20mm."
"After reviewing the Porsche website's statements about PASM for the 911 Carrera, 911 Carrera S, and the 911 Carrera GTS, it really appears that PASM in each of the different models lowers the suspension by 10mm from the [U]standard 911 Carrera suspension ride height.[U] I cannot seem to see where there is any indication in Porsche's language that the GTS models (with PASM standard) are any lower than the Carrera S models (where PASM is also standard). SPASM, in each coupe model, is an additional 10mm lower than PASM, for a total ride height reduction (from the standard 911 Carrera) of 20mm."
07-07-2015, 01:26 PM
#23
Drifting
I have been wondering about the steering too and thought Porsche had developed better software over the years since 2012 (assuming same HW between C2S/GTS/GT3).
It would be interesting to see what he thought about the steering in a 2015 C2S vs a GTS. Also wonder if the updated SW would be available as a retrofit for older models (I've had this done by the factory on other cars).
It would be interesting to see what he thought about the steering in a 2015 C2S vs a GTS. Also wonder if the updated SW would be available as a retrofit for older models (I've had this done by the factory on other cars).
07-07-2015, 01:56 PM
#25
Race Car
The feel with Sport PASM it is definitely different in any 991 model that has it, relative to cars with no PASM or PASM. The car remains supple but rides a bit more firmly, and the car reacts to transients in direction a bit faster. To me that comes across as an adequate explanation of "better steering feel".
07-07-2015, 02:01 PM
#26
Race Car
Not sure if I am the referenced Chuck in the post 2 above, but if VW had a Bursch type exhaust, well then I admit that is just like my first "Porsche" wannabe ride!
07-07-2015, 02:12 PM
#27
Race Director
How Irritatingly Good Is The Porsche 991 GTS?
Originally Posted by chuckbdc
Not sure if I am the referenced Chuck in the post 2 above, but if VW had a Bursch type exhaust, well then I admit that is just like my first "Porsche" wannabe ride!
This Chuck
