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I generally agree with you but with two exceptions.
First, I went from a 997.1 S to a 997.2 GTS that I ordered w/ no interior comfort options and there are no creature comforts I miss. I mean, anyone who places a lot of value on creature comforts ought to be looking at a Lexus. Even though the 991 is more cushy than my 997.2 you still have to pay attention and drive it (unlike, say, my DD A4 which I should nickname Novacaine b/c, well, I guess that needs no explanation).
Second, well, performance is subjective. On the street what the GTS has over the C2S isn't anything to bother with - but the track is a different story. If a lap around track X takes 100 seconds in a C2S and the GTS can give you five percent better performance, you can do that same lap in 95 seconds. A five percent performance gain - no big deal. Not a big deal until you consider that, all things being equal, in a 30 minute DE session the GTS will be on the tail of the C2S ready to lap it.
All true but I don't believe there's any way on earth a GTS would have a 5 second/lap advantage on an S on the same rubber on any 100-second track in the world. I would suggest 1 second might be stretching it. The wider track, wider body, wider rear tires may have a measurable handling improvement, or may not, and it will offset that a little by decreased aero.
Put Randy Pobst in a Camry and me in a GT3 and he will kick my *** as is the same with everyone else here and I used to drive for BMW back in the 90's.
All true but I don't believe there's any way on earth a GTS would have a 5 second/lap advantage on an S on the same rubber on any 100-second track in the world. I would suggest 1 second might be stretching it. The wider track, wider body, wider rear tires may have a measurable handling improvement, or may not, and it will offset that a little by decreased aero.
Regardless of track time differences (be it 5 seconds or something else), someone in the OP's position who chooses the C2S in question over a stripper GTS is probably not an owner who gravitates towards performance numbers, or track grativas.
To the OP: If you want more a grand tourer sports coupe, then the C2S is the way to go. If you prefer a car that's more performance oriented, and some of the everyday comforts and luxuries are just not that important to you, then GTS is the right car for you.
Just depends on what variant of a 991 911 you want. Can't go wrong either way.
Agreed. I'm just pointing out how incredibly difficult it is to come by 5 seconds/lap on a 100-second track. Going from street tires and pads to DOT race-rubber and race pads used to do it, but street tires have gotten so much better in the past decade that I don't know if the delta is still that great.
But 30hp isn't really worth much at all in one of these cars, even on the track. I ponied up for the extra 30 ponies, but it's really just to impress my friends down the pub, as the British reviewers like to say.
Put Randy Pobst in a Camry and me in a GT3 and he will kick my *** as is the same with everyone else here and I used to drive for BMW back in the 90's.
Agreed. I'm just pointing out how incredibly difficult it is to come by 5 seconds/lap on a 100-second track. Going from street tires and pads to DOT race-rubber and race pads used to do it, but street tires have gotten so much better in the past decade that I don't know if the delta is still that great.
But 30hp isn't really worth much at all in one of these cars, even on the track. I ponied up for the extra 30 ponies, but it's really just to impress my friends down the pub, as the British reviewers like to say.
I agree with you about the extra 30hp. To the OP if these are your only two choices then the decision would be to list out each option/spec and see which model offers the most options/specs that are most important to you e.g., bose, wider body, wheels, 30HP, heated seats and PDK, 7spd. The car that has more of want is important to you wins.
I wouldn't even talk about performance or lap times between these two models a .01 tenth and an extra 30hp is nothing to brag about... Porsche will eventually take the GTS on the nurburgring and everyone will see the difference in lap times vs. the S I'm sure the GTS will go quicker than 7:37 but how much quicker is the question if your talking about a few seconds quicker on a 7+ minute lap you would have lost me at hello. With that said, I believe both the S and GTS have enough performance that will make any driver including Randy Probst fully satisfied on a race track. Now if anyone wants to talk performance or lap times I think the GT3 RS or even the regular GT3 is the car that will spank both the S and GTS any day, any place, anytime and the performance gap will be mind blowing. My point is comparing an S vs. GTS with words like lap times/performance is a waste of time since the gap is not big enough to brag about... Again I'm curious to know Porsche's official Nurburgring lap time on a 911 GTS.
Hmm - not sure I agree with the 30hp making no difference on the road. I was in a similar situation to the OP and drove an S and a GTS back to back, and found the GTS to have noticeably more torque low down. I know the headline figure is the same, but something about the way it is delivered makes the power curve feel smoother and less stepped in the GTS. There are also subtle but noticeable differences in steering feel (at least in the RWD cars) and gear changes (in the 7MT cars).
But again this is personal preference. I know I'd be driving an S thinking 'what would that extra 30hp feel like' and I wouldn't be driving a GTS thinking 'I wish I had Bose'. Plus, if I did end up feeling that I'd wait a year or so and then replace the standard sound system with an aftermarket one. Also re that other creature comfort of heated seats, the GTS seats are alcantara so don't get cold in the same way leather ones do, so heated seats are less necessary.
I also like the widebody shape of the GTS and all the black bits, and if you get a manual you'll have the last, best NA stick-shift Porsche is ever going to make and this may help residual value.
Hope this helps. As others have said, you're likely to be very happy whichever you go for.
Hi all,
Great thread here.
Sorry, but I'm a bit confused as I thought the ALL the C2S had the wider body/rear end like the Turbos/GTS - wasn't that the case in 996/997...or did that change for the 991?
It sounds like for 991, ONLY the Turbo and GTS has wider body?
How about for 997s?
Thx in advance.
PL
Not sure about the 997, but in the 991 the C4 and C4s have a wider rear track than the C2 and C2S. The GTS has this wide track in both 2- and 4wd models. The GTS is therefore the only RWD 991 with the wide track.
I think the wider body suits the 991, but again it's personal preference.
The turbo is a third body shape, which is wider than both.
In 993 the C4S got everything Turbo (brakes, suspension, widebody) except the whaletail. The C2S got the widebody, a unique split grill, but standard Carrera brakes and suspension bits.
In 996 there was no C2S; the C4S got the Turbo widebody, again without the Turbo wing. (attached photo of my silver Turbo and a random C4S that parked next to me)
In 997, you could get C2S or C4S, but those meant meatier motors (3.8) but not wide bodies. A few S-based special editions got the widebody.
In 991, for the U.S. I believe the 911/50 C2S last year got the widebody (not certain), and now the GTS gets it. But standard C2S models do not. But ALL C4's get widebody, S and base. Makes no sense.
All of the HP increase in the GTS is at high RPMS. If you're not going to the track or drive around like a hoon, I wonder how useful it really will be. Better resale? Sure. But don't buy it for resale.
Now, to the original question: only you know what you want. It's possible that you don't know what it is that you want, so go play with the online configuration tool. Then decide what you must have (within your budget, natch) and after you've gone through that exercise, maybe then you can determine if the GTS is what will check all the boxes, or a custom ordered C2S. Because really, there is no excuse for compromising when it comes to a $100K+ car. Order what you want.
All of the HP increase in the GTS is at high RPMS... Order what you want.
It sounded to me like the OP's point was that he wasn't sure what he wanted, which is why he was asking for a bit more information on both cars. And while the HP increase may be felt only at higher revs, the altered torque curve is felt low down, which does make a difference for street driving.
I went from a well optioned '14 C2S with PDK to a lightly optioned '15 GTS 7-spd manual. Driving / styling notes...
- Powerkit - from the very first drive I noticed significantly more linear power in all RPM ranges. A big plus for the GTS!
- Widebody, PASM sport, areokit cup - I have these options and the comments have been "WOW" and looks super aggressive!
- 7-speed manual - matches very well with the broader torque curve provided by the powerkit. A more engaging and sportier drive.
- sunroof - had it on the C2S. Without it the GTS body looks sportier and the cabin is still well lit and noticeably more headroom.
- PSE - the exhaust note is unique to the GTS, and you hear the exhaust more than the sound symposer which was more noticeable on the C2s.
- Overall - the GTS successfully fills a niche above the C2s!
In 997, you could get C2S or C4S, but those meant meatier motors (3.8) but not wide bodies. A few S-based special editions got the widebody.
I believe the AWD variants (C4, C4S, GTS4, Turbo, Turbo S, etc.) are wide-bodied 997's (as well as the RWD GTS, GT2, GT3RS, GT2RS). In fact, the NB is a rarer car since only the C2, C2S, and GT3 are NB for the 997.
For the 991 I think there's 3 body types. Narrow, wider, and turbo wide lol. The new 991 GT3 RS has the turbo body and the regular GT3 has the "medium" body I believe. The GTS would have the same body as the C4/C4S which is in the middle.
I'm more familiar with 997's so please correct me if I'm wrong with the 991's.
03-08-2015, 10:20 PM
