Sway bar and understeer
03-26-2014, 07:25 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
That's my goal. I don't want to make any expensive part changes. I'll start out with negative camber and tire pressures as suggested above. Also, I'll see about getting a wider tire up front, but there aren't many options.
03-26-2014, 08:25 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
Different tires, wheels and air volume but I was running a 5 pound difference front to rear hot which seemed to work.
09-13-2015, 08:53 AM
#19
Advanced
The gt3 front bar on my 991s gave me mixed results and is coming off the car. The tarret links used on my 991 from the pinch bolts didn't give me a long enough arm to mitigate twist bind, which messes up bar rate past certain steering angles.
I was able to obtain a Tarret tester rear bar from Tarret that actually has a lot of promise, but to effectively benefit a front gt3 bar on 991 I think u need aftermarket coil overs so u can use tarrets extended drop link mount option that mounts the drop link to the threaded body. I think this with Nice set of coil overs could work well.
Not compatible with my sleeve over I checked. Gotta use the edc kit from kW to delete PASM if that's what we are gonna do next and toss this kit, or play more with rates and keep this kit on the car, while I play with bars this is a test. Only a test. Not development work, just feedback to vendors and would be parts users. And possible other early adopter tester types. what works for a 981 or 997 may not work for a 991. Some stuff is out there but not really ready for prime time at 10/10s out on a track.
I may end up on jrz or tractive dda with this car but not till I have the bars sorted.
Next up, I will try the tpc bars, before coming back to the gt3 front and trying a longer drop link than oe,maybe the tpc which are made from scratch and may offer better geometry up front than the gt3 part?. This may be easier than trying to adapt a gt3 bar which feels both narrow and a poor fit without a drop link that helps somehow oe worked, so keeping that exact geometry is key
Right now I'm messing with the kW sleeve over kit and am in the process of swapping out the kW coils with hyper co coils. kW came with 246 front and 571 rear rates, whereas stock was 188/436
According to the elephant racing site chuck sells 350 lbs front coils for use with his kit, so I'm gonna try that next on the kW sleeves, with 700 or 725 rear. Let's see what PASM stepped up feels like.
My biggest driving issue is not enough front platform on the middle hole setting on the gt3 bar, and inducing under steer in the firmest of settings up front. Needs work to be able to beat my baseline laptimes I established with the car stock, but stock PASM (not SPASM) is overwhelmed with a race day Lower tread wear tire beyond the mpsc2.
Take what I a, posting with a grain of salt as I am on modified rates from stock. So I do not want you to take this as gospel, please, just my personal experiences
Let's not be presumptive, I like to test stuff for this reason, most of this is work in progress still so please don't jump to judgement
Anyone else have any real world findings on bar fitment?
Yes running the front tires stiff and rear tires soft helps too
It's taken forever to get some traction on aftermarket parts here, really.
Big thanks to Ira at Tarret with out the innovation and effort progress would never be made, the opportunity to test stuff is great. I look fwd to seeing a rear bar for sale for those folks on coilovers the extended drop link kit is a boon I think.
Same to Tom and Mike TPC, who also makes some pretty neat stuff for our cars.
I also owe my local alignments and installs to Sam and my main man Nick under the car at Evoms who has been great support for whatever is over my head. ( so rennlisters do not wonder if it's installed wrong or aligned right etc)
kW on the other hand didn't seem too interested when I told them the stock car was faster in lap times than with their kit, so I can not recommend their sleeve over kit and rates at all,from their support angle, no. It's weird, the coils are about 30% stiffer and I expected PASM to be okay with it but the front feels too soft to me for track work.
With talking to elephant, at least you get the feeling they care about a new car that apparently isn't the easiest car to build aftermarket parts for given the seemingly long delay in folks getting these parts to us and our being able to track something past stock. What are you gonna do with a pricey coilover set with stock bars?
So far no one is offering a fully sorted bar and drop link for my track use, and I really wish they would! I can only hope that will change very soon I suspect as vendors get it together.
I suppose all 991 being tracked for real are gt3, so this is a problem only for 991ers who wanna track with aftermarket stuff.
I was able to obtain a Tarret tester rear bar from Tarret that actually has a lot of promise, but to effectively benefit a front gt3 bar on 991 I think u need aftermarket coil overs so u can use tarrets extended drop link mount option that mounts the drop link to the threaded body. I think this with Nice set of coil overs could work well.
Not compatible with my sleeve over I checked. Gotta use the edc kit from kW to delete PASM if that's what we are gonna do next and toss this kit, or play more with rates and keep this kit on the car, while I play with bars this is a test. Only a test. Not development work, just feedback to vendors and would be parts users. And possible other early adopter tester types. what works for a 981 or 997 may not work for a 991. Some stuff is out there but not really ready for prime time at 10/10s out on a track.
I may end up on jrz or tractive dda with this car but not till I have the bars sorted.
Next up, I will try the tpc bars, before coming back to the gt3 front and trying a longer drop link than oe,maybe the tpc which are made from scratch and may offer better geometry up front than the gt3 part?. This may be easier than trying to adapt a gt3 bar which feels both narrow and a poor fit without a drop link that helps somehow oe worked, so keeping that exact geometry is key
Right now I'm messing with the kW sleeve over kit and am in the process of swapping out the kW coils with hyper co coils. kW came with 246 front and 571 rear rates, whereas stock was 188/436
According to the elephant racing site chuck sells 350 lbs front coils for use with his kit, so I'm gonna try that next on the kW sleeves, with 700 or 725 rear. Let's see what PASM stepped up feels like.
My biggest driving issue is not enough front platform on the middle hole setting on the gt3 bar, and inducing under steer in the firmest of settings up front. Needs work to be able to beat my baseline laptimes I established with the car stock, but stock PASM (not SPASM) is overwhelmed with a race day Lower tread wear tire beyond the mpsc2.
Take what I a, posting with a grain of salt as I am on modified rates from stock. So I do not want you to take this as gospel, please, just my personal experiences
Let's not be presumptive, I like to test stuff for this reason, most of this is work in progress still so please don't jump to judgement
Anyone else have any real world findings on bar fitment?
Yes running the front tires stiff and rear tires soft helps too
It's taken forever to get some traction on aftermarket parts here, really.
Big thanks to Ira at Tarret with out the innovation and effort progress would never be made, the opportunity to test stuff is great. I look fwd to seeing a rear bar for sale for those folks on coilovers the extended drop link kit is a boon I think.
Same to Tom and Mike TPC, who also makes some pretty neat stuff for our cars.
I also owe my local alignments and installs to Sam and my main man Nick under the car at Evoms who has been great support for whatever is over my head. ( so rennlisters do not wonder if it's installed wrong or aligned right etc)
kW on the other hand didn't seem too interested when I told them the stock car was faster in lap times than with their kit, so I can not recommend their sleeve over kit and rates at all,from their support angle, no. It's weird, the coils are about 30% stiffer and I expected PASM to be okay with it but the front feels too soft to me for track work.
With talking to elephant, at least you get the feeling they care about a new car that apparently isn't the easiest car to build aftermarket parts for given the seemingly long delay in folks getting these parts to us and our being able to track something past stock. What are you gonna do with a pricey coilover set with stock bars?
So far no one is offering a fully sorted bar and drop link for my track use, and I really wish they would! I can only hope that will change very soon I suspect as vendors get it together.
I suppose all 991 being tracked for real are gt3, so this is a problem only for 991ers who wanna track with aftermarket stuff.
Last edited by Gem Mookherjea; 09-13-2015 at 09:34 AM.
09-13-2015, 01:36 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
The gt3 front bar on my 991s gave me mixed results and is coming off the car. The tarret links used on my 991 from the pinch bolts didn't give me a long enough arm to mitigate twist bind, which messes up bar rate past certain steering angles.
I was able to obtain a Tarret tester rear bar from Tarret that actually has a lot of promise, but to effectively benefit a front gt3 bar on 991 I think u need aftermarket coil overs so u can use tarrets extended drop link mount option that mounts the drop link to the threaded body. I think this with Nice set of coil overs could work well.
Not compatible with my sleeve over I checked. Gotta use the edc kit from kW to delete PASM if that's what we are gonna do next and toss this kit, or play more with rates and keep this kit on the car, while I play with bars this is a test. Only a test. Not development work, just feedback to vendors and would be parts users. And possible other early adopter tester types. what works for a 981 or 997 may not work for a 991. Some stuff is out there but not really ready for prime time at 10/10s out on a track.
I may end up on jrz or tractive dda with this car but not till I have the bars sorted.
Next up, I will try the tpc bars, before coming back to the gt3 front and trying a longer drop link than oe,maybe the tpc which are made from scratch and may offer better geometry up front than the gt3 part?. This may be easier than trying to adapt a gt3 bar which feels both narrow and a poor fit without a drop link that helps somehow oe worked, so keeping that exact geometry is key
Right now I'm messing with the kW sleeve over kit and am in the process of swapping out the kW coils with hyper co coils. kW came with 246 front and 571 rear rates, whereas stock was 188/436
According to the elephant racing site chuck sells 350 lbs front coils for use with his kit, so I'm gonna try that next on the kW sleeves, with 700 or 725 rear. Let's see what PASM stepped up feels like.
My biggest driving issue is not enough front platform on the middle hole setting on the gt3 bar, and inducing under steer in the firmest of settings up front. Needs work to be able to beat my baseline laptimes I established with the car stock, but stock PASM (not SPASM) is overwhelmed with a race day Lower tread wear tire beyond the mpsc2.
Take what I a, posting with a grain of salt as I am on modified rates from stock. So I do not want you to take this as gospel, please, just my personal experiences
Let's not be presumptive, I like to test stuff for this reason, most of this is work in progress still so please don't jump to judgement
Anyone else have any real world findings on bar fitment?
Yes running the front tires stiff and rear tires soft helps too
It's taken forever to get some traction on aftermarket parts here, really.
Big thanks to Ira at Tarret with out the innovation and effort progress would never be made, the opportunity to test stuff is great. I look fwd to seeing a rear bar for sale for those folks on coilovers the extended drop link kit is a boon I think.
Same to Tom and Mike TPC, who also makes some pretty neat stuff for our cars.
I also owe my local alignments and installs to Sam and my main man Nick under the car at Evoms who has been great support for whatever is over my head. ( so rennlisters do not wonder if it's installed wrong or aligned right etc)
kW on the other hand didn't seem too interested when I told them the stock car was faster in lap times than with their kit, so I can not recommend their sleeve over kit and rates at all,from their support angle, no. It's weird, the coils are about 30% stiffer and I expected PASM to be okay with it but the front feels too soft to me for track work.
With talking to elephant, at least you get the feeling they care about a new car that apparently isn't the easiest car to build aftermarket parts for given the seemingly long delay in folks getting these parts to us and our being able to track something past stock. What are you gonna do with a pricey coilover set with stock bars?
So far no one is offering a fully sorted bar and drop link for my track use, and I really wish they would! I can only hope that will change very soon I suspect as vendors get it together.
I suppose all 991 being tracked for real are gt3, so this is a problem only for 991ers who wanna track with aftermarket stuff.
I was able to obtain a Tarret tester rear bar from Tarret that actually has a lot of promise, but to effectively benefit a front gt3 bar on 991 I think u need aftermarket coil overs so u can use tarrets extended drop link mount option that mounts the drop link to the threaded body. I think this with Nice set of coil overs could work well.
Not compatible with my sleeve over I checked. Gotta use the edc kit from kW to delete PASM if that's what we are gonna do next and toss this kit, or play more with rates and keep this kit on the car, while I play with bars this is a test. Only a test. Not development work, just feedback to vendors and would be parts users. And possible other early adopter tester types. what works for a 981 or 997 may not work for a 991. Some stuff is out there but not really ready for prime time at 10/10s out on a track.
I may end up on jrz or tractive dda with this car but not till I have the bars sorted.
Next up, I will try the tpc bars, before coming back to the gt3 front and trying a longer drop link than oe,maybe the tpc which are made from scratch and may offer better geometry up front than the gt3 part?. This may be easier than trying to adapt a gt3 bar which feels both narrow and a poor fit without a drop link that helps somehow oe worked, so keeping that exact geometry is key
Right now I'm messing with the kW sleeve over kit and am in the process of swapping out the kW coils with hyper co coils. kW came with 246 front and 571 rear rates, whereas stock was 188/436
According to the elephant racing site chuck sells 350 lbs front coils for use with his kit, so I'm gonna try that next on the kW sleeves, with 700 or 725 rear. Let's see what PASM stepped up feels like.
My biggest driving issue is not enough front platform on the middle hole setting on the gt3 bar, and inducing under steer in the firmest of settings up front. Needs work to be able to beat my baseline laptimes I established with the car stock, but stock PASM (not SPASM) is overwhelmed with a race day Lower tread wear tire beyond the mpsc2.
Take what I a, posting with a grain of salt as I am on modified rates from stock. So I do not want you to take this as gospel, please, just my personal experiences
Let's not be presumptive, I like to test stuff for this reason, most of this is work in progress still so please don't jump to judgement
Anyone else have any real world findings on bar fitment?
Yes running the front tires stiff and rear tires soft helps too
It's taken forever to get some traction on aftermarket parts here, really.
Big thanks to Ira at Tarret with out the innovation and effort progress would never be made, the opportunity to test stuff is great. I look fwd to seeing a rear bar for sale for those folks on coilovers the extended drop link kit is a boon I think.
Same to Tom and Mike TPC, who also makes some pretty neat stuff for our cars.
I also owe my local alignments and installs to Sam and my main man Nick under the car at Evoms who has been great support for whatever is over my head. ( so rennlisters do not wonder if it's installed wrong or aligned right etc)
kW on the other hand didn't seem too interested when I told them the stock car was faster in lap times than with their kit, so I can not recommend their sleeve over kit and rates at all,from their support angle, no. It's weird, the coils are about 30% stiffer and I expected PASM to be okay with it but the front feels too soft to me for track work.
With talking to elephant, at least you get the feeling they care about a new car that apparently isn't the easiest car to build aftermarket parts for given the seemingly long delay in folks getting these parts to us and our being able to track something past stock. What are you gonna do with a pricey coilover set with stock bars?
So far no one is offering a fully sorted bar and drop link for my track use, and I really wish they would! I can only hope that will change very soon I suspect as vendors get it together.
I suppose all 991 being tracked for real are gt3, so this is a problem only for 991ers who wanna track with aftermarket stuff.
Another question, how much lowered are your car. Considering the front suspension is macpherson struts, excessive lower will induce tons of understeers due to its geometry change.
09-13-2015, 01:46 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
IMO (and its just opinion) with a PDCC car there are limited/no options for such aftermarket suspension adjustments, because of the presence of the PDCC system; 1) because of the h/w itself, 2) because of the
fact that the system is dynamic and software driven based upon a variety of sensor inputs from the car.
I'd recommend talking with Elephant Racing in Saratoga, they seem to have the most experience with the 991.
fact that the system is dynamic and software driven based upon a variety of sensor inputs from the car.
I'd recommend talking with Elephant Racing in Saratoga, they seem to have the most experience with the 991.
09-17-2015, 09:52 AM
#23
Advanced
The car does not have PDCC or a sway bar swap would not be possible.
The car is on MPsc2 and also on Dunlop sport race maxx tires
Good point, I'm planning on using the TPC racing DSC to augment the damping electronics and algorithms, very happy with their dsc in my 997tt.
Some folks stay on stock coils others suggest techart. I'm using the sleeve over kit in hopes of running my own rates and using a dsc to get more out of factory pasm.
Ideally running factory rates and adding a dsc will be a boon
The car is on MPsc2 and also on Dunlop sport race maxx tires
Good point, I'm planning on using the TPC racing DSC to augment the damping electronics and algorithms, very happy with their dsc in my 997tt.
Some folks stay on stock coils others suggest techart. I'm using the sleeve over kit in hopes of running my own rates and using a dsc to get more out of factory pasm.
Ideally running factory rates and adding a dsc will be a boon
09-17-2015, 01:38 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
The car does not have PDCC or a sway bar swap would not be possible.
The car is on MPsc2 and also on Dunlop sport race maxx tires
Good point, I'm planning on using the TPC racing DSC to augment the damping electronics and algorithms, very happy with their dsc in my 997tt.
Some folks stay on stock coils others suggest techart. I'm using the sleeve over kit in hopes of running my own rates and using a dsc to get more out of factory pasm.
Ideally running factory rates and adding a dsc will be a boon
The car is on MPsc2 and also on Dunlop sport race maxx tires
Good point, I'm planning on using the TPC racing DSC to augment the damping electronics and algorithms, very happy with their dsc in my 997tt.
Some folks stay on stock coils others suggest techart. I'm using the sleeve over kit in hopes of running my own rates and using a dsc to get more out of factory pasm.
Ideally running factory rates and adding a dsc will be a boon
I thought about using the KW H.A.S kit, which would allow for a broader
range of springs to be used.
09-17-2015, 02:28 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
09-17-2015, 07:00 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
09-17-2015, 09:29 PM
#29
Burning Brakes
The car is way too soft on stock SPASM for the track but with my alignment on Cup2s it is neutral. I'm not a fan of patchwork solutions but would like to go to a moton ohlin, Penske or JRZ club sport shock with at least 100% stiffer springs F/R. Just don't want to bother at this point with the reduction in my track time.
09-18-2015, 01:54 AM
#30
I used all the available neg camber on the front wheels with the stock suspension, got 19" wheels with yoko AD08 245s and this all helped a hell of a lot for fast corners on track days. not totally dialled out but a lot better.
saw someone with the turbo size brakes on their 991.1 c2s and that would probably be the next step allowing a little slower corner entry on hairpins where there is still some understeer
I don't think the nose will ever totally tied down on this
saw someone with the turbo size brakes on their 991.1 c2s and that would probably be the next step allowing a little slower corner entry on hairpins where there is still some understeer
I don't think the nose will ever totally tied down on this