Kathuat

I am wondering what would be the longevity of 991S manual transmission cars that are maintained well, taken care and used as daily drivers. Could the cars last 500K miles? Considering how much these cars cost - it would be nice if these cars lasted a long time.

1. At what age - would the maintenance become too much?

2. What about mileage for a typical engine rebuild? Cost of new or engine rebuild?

3. What would be the other typical problems that cause long term owners to consider trading in their cars?

Thoughts/Insight much appreciated.

LexVan

Your questions:

1) Too much? Define "too much"? More than you can afford? More than the car is worth? Too many variables.

2) Rebuild/replacement? At least 200,000 miles. Well maintained, no problem. Probably just as easy, cheaper, and faster to buy a new crate motor, and plug it in.

3) Why owners trading in their cars? To get the next best 911! It's a drug, and Stutggart is the dealer.

Kathuat

Good questions- I would define "too much" as exceed the value of the car. The other way to take a look at it; a cost/benefit analysis would indicate that investing more $$ in the car is not worthwhile. Value of car exceeds costs of repair.

200,000 miles for a new well maintained Porsche motor. I was thinking it would be like 300,000-400,000 miles. New crate motor from Porsche interesting idea rather than having the motor rebuild.

I am thinking of starting a thread and share my experiences and cost incurred with long term ownership of the car.

Powereng

Value is often defined in two ways, what you feel it is worth and what someone else is willing to pay.

Zmoney3982

I would be interested in such a thread. Having read the new Panorama issue about the doctor fellow who has in 17 years put 300,000 miles on his 911 cab, I was thinking along the same lines as you in terms of how long I could expect to keep this car. Not that I don't love the monthly payments, but I do look forward to the day when I can drive it and say I own it.

CarManDSL

Now there is an opening for a new thread.

How many 991 owners paid for their new car outright vs those that borrowed or leased.

goofballdeluxe

Maybe when Porsche was a tiny boutique company and built air-cooled sports cars in small numbers the cars were over-engineered and built to last.

Now, Porsche has been swallowed whole by VW and the corporation calls the shots. They only care about profit and that the car lasts 3 years/36K miles, or however long your warranty is

Noah Fect

I don't think the statistics would support this assertion. The early cars are valuable due to their history and rarity. They have been, and will continue to be, maintained lovingly and restored when necessary, because they aren't making any more of them.

In terms of quality and reliability, like all old cars, they were crap compared to what's produced today by any number of manufacturers including Porsche. Each generation of 911 had its quirks and flaws, but the cars themselves were always worth keeping alive, and (at the time) the cost was reasonable.

Newer cars are more commoditized, more homogeneous, and infinitely more complex. Quality is a race... a race between increases in complexity and improvements in engineering and manufacturing methodology. As soon as we get better at building cars, it seems we dissipate most of those gains by adding more stuff to break. (Key word being "most". Statistically you are less likely to end up calling for a tow truck at the side of the road than any Porsche owner in history.)

The larger question is, how long will it be worth keeping a current-generation Porsche sports car on the road? My guess is, not as long as it has been for prior models. A fifty-year-old 911 can still be driven on today's roads, but as a result, it's too valuable to drive on today's roads, so it will be around in another fifty years, parked in a museum somewhere. But a fifty year old 991 will almost certainly not be legal to drive on the public roads of 2063. They will come out at special events and Goodwood-style historic races, maintained by wizened gurus with JPL-level embedded systems expertise.

They won't be especially valuable, I suspect, because there are so many of them being made. There will be too few opportunities to drive, exhibit, and lust after early-2000s sports cars, and too many of those cars to compete for the nostalgia mindshare available. Sad, maybe... but a good excuse to hit the road and enjoy your car now.

bccars

Is that so ?
Do a search on google and find out in the holding structure who actually owns VW !

Gcracker07110

Last statement is BS lets take a practical example, 1965-1967 Ford Mustangs. Ford built 1.5M mustangs in this period and 1.5% of those mustangs were very special, those that went to Shelby and the K codes. While they produced a large number of vehicles those that were specially optioned are worth real money today, I happen to own 2 of that 1.5%.

Porsche has a target of 200,000 units by 2018 for their total portfolio, I don't think there will be any issues in 50 years with the value of these cars there simply won't be a large supply of them around after accidents etc. Quite what the value of these vehicles will be is debatable, really depends how the market views the 991 vs 997 against future offerings. One thing that is for sure is that in 50 years the air cooled 993 and 964 will be worth real money as they are milestone cars I.e the switch to water/oil cooled. If you have an RSR or any exotic air cooled put into storage and take good care of it

Kalashnikov

Car can last as long as you want it to last.

I spent enough time on Honda/Acura boards to see 10 year old cars with ORIGINAL EVERYTHING turning 300-400k miles.

You don't see many Porsches with those miles because people don't drive 911s daily, and demographic that can afford 911 brand new usually does not have a need to drive 30k miles per year.

If you drove your 911 daily for 200 miles on the highway, it would have no problem making 300k+ figure just like Hondas do.

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2...rsistence.html

Hudyman

I have 18,000 miles in 11 months on my 991 3.4 base manual car. My policy has been to trade in Porsche cars after 50,000 miles due to warranty expiration. Since I daily drive the car, abuse it on track and autocross I start to get antsy at 50k miles. Never want to have to pay for a new motor or some other major repair.

Indeed I too wonder if these cars could last 200k or 500k - at this rate I need 9 more years to truly know the longevity potential.

solomonschris

No engine wears out. MT cars will require clutches, depending on the owner. The PDK cars have no history, so who knows. People get rid of their cars because they get tired of them, not because the engine wears out. There are reasons to not buy a 991, but earley wearing out of the engine isn't one of them.

bccars

I've seen a vid (can't find it anymore) about the first Pagani Zonda that was built, being still in use as a testcar. It was named "Nonno". That car is flogged mercylessly every friggin kilometer, and it is still going strong after over 1.000.000 kilometers if I can recall correctly. It's all about money and maintenance I suppose.

Edit: found the vid

Kathuat

I thought engines wore out and either needed to rebuild or you needed a new engine. I understand clutches etc. get worn out. I had heard people were rebuilding engines at 150,000 or 200,000 miles.

It would be nice to use the Porsche daily, put miles on it and document repairs needed to keep it a peak performance. I am going to start a thread documenting miles and experience with long term ownership of the car or maybe a blog.