No More Manual Gear Box for The 911?
10-30-2013, 02:47 PM
#61
Burning Brakes
The only thing I did was making a sarcastic comment to another pointless thread. And I meant what I said...
It is ancient technology and the fact that the manual is gonna disappear is no news. We all know that for a while now. Porsche is one of the last sportscar manufacturers that still offers a manual. (That's why I said, wake up! Everyone that doesn't know this has been sleeping the last couple of years)
I didn't say anything about what is better or worse. There is no better or worse, like I said several times in this thread.
And if you wanna whine, nothing wrong with it... It just ain't gonna help a tiny bit, so it's wasted energy, that you better spend on somethimg that makes you happy instead of grumpy. (That's free advice
)
Like I said a couple of times now.. I have no intention to offend anyone, I just give my opinion. If one doesn't like that, than you're probably in the wrong place.
It's a forum and there are people giving comments on numerous things. Not everybody has the same opinion on every subject.
Oh and FWIW: I respect all your opinions. I even understand why people are sad about the fact that the manual is gonna disappear (Even I feel a little bit sad about it), but that doesn't mean that it is the end of the world.
Suzy (via iOS app)
It is ancient technology and the fact that the manual is gonna disappear is no news. We all know that for a while now. Porsche is one of the last sportscar manufacturers that still offers a manual. (That's why I said, wake up! Everyone that doesn't know this has been sleeping the last couple of years)
I didn't say anything about what is better or worse. There is no better or worse, like I said several times in this thread.
And if you wanna whine, nothing wrong with it... It just ain't gonna help a tiny bit, so it's wasted energy, that you better spend on somethimg that makes you happy instead of grumpy. (That's free advice
)Like I said a couple of times now.. I have no intention to offend anyone, I just give my opinion. If one doesn't like that, than you're probably in the wrong place.
It's a forum and there are people giving comments on numerous things. Not everybody has the same opinion on every subject.
Oh and FWIW: I respect all your opinions. I even understand why people are sad about the fact that the manual is gonna disappear (Even I feel a little bit sad about it), but that doesn't mean that it is the end of the world.
Suzy (via iOS app)
10-30-2013, 03:15 PM
#63
Racer
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10-30-2013, 05:13 PM
#64
Race Director
10-30-2013, 06:33 PM
#65
Rennlist Member
I don't understand the debate, really. Why do we buy Porsches? Because their goal has always been to build the very best sports car they know how to build at any given time. When asked what the best Porsche was, Ferry was known to reply, "The one that the factory is building now."
At the same time, as Suzy pointed out, the 911 has a fifty year heritage as the sports car that does everything. Unlike most sports cars it's as surefooted in the rain as most conventional cars, and you don't have to park it when the snow starts to fall. You don't have to leave it at home when you have more than one passenger. The engine is among the best you can buy -- but so are the headlights and wipers. If Porsche had a corporate motto, it would be something like, "Performance without compromise." Some models of Porsches have come closer to that ideal than others, but the overall philosophy is not debatable.
Now, note what is missing. Terms like "feel" and "involvement," however you define them, are not part of Porsche's corporate mission. They never have been, except to the extent that they coincide with the goal of building the best possible car. When viewed under that lens, PDK wins. A car with PDK is better than an otherwise-identical one without. Why? Because it more effectively satisfies the performance-without-compromise criterion that has guided the company from Day One.
In summary, don't shoot the messenger. Porsche's philosophy doesn't invalidate anyone's desire for a stick shift, or their opinion that a car so equipped is "better" from their own perspective. But it does tell you which way the wind is blowing. A better sports car, as Porsche defines it, is one that maintains leading-edge performance while demanding fewer compromises. If that's not your definition then you need to look at older cars, or cars from other manufacturers.
We're lucky to live in the "good old days," where there are very few genuinely awful cars for sale. You have a lot of options. If Porsche doesn't build exactly what you want, chances are someone else does.
At the same time, as Suzy pointed out, the 911 has a fifty year heritage as the sports car that does everything. Unlike most sports cars it's as surefooted in the rain as most conventional cars, and you don't have to park it when the snow starts to fall. You don't have to leave it at home when you have more than one passenger. The engine is among the best you can buy -- but so are the headlights and wipers. If Porsche had a corporate motto, it would be something like, "Performance without compromise." Some models of Porsches have come closer to that ideal than others, but the overall philosophy is not debatable.
Now, note what is missing. Terms like "feel" and "involvement," however you define them, are not part of Porsche's corporate mission. They never have been, except to the extent that they coincide with the goal of building the best possible car. When viewed under that lens, PDK wins. A car with PDK is better than an otherwise-identical one without. Why? Because it more effectively satisfies the performance-without-compromise criterion that has guided the company from Day One.
In summary, don't shoot the messenger. Porsche's philosophy doesn't invalidate anyone's desire for a stick shift, or their opinion that a car so equipped is "better" from their own perspective. But it does tell you which way the wind is blowing. A better sports car, as Porsche defines it, is one that maintains leading-edge performance while demanding fewer compromises. If that's not your definition then you need to look at older cars, or cars from other manufacturers.
We're lucky to live in the "good old days," where there are very few genuinely awful cars for sale. You have a lot of options. If Porsche doesn't build exactly what you want, chances are someone else does.
10-30-2013, 08:20 PM
#66
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10-30-2013, 08:50 PM
#68
Three Wheelin'
Did we just discover the secret to the perpetuum mobile ?
10-30-2013, 09:05 PM
#69
Rennlist Member
10-30-2013, 10:06 PM
#70
The automatic transmission actually was invented in 1894 and widely available by the 1940s. So this business about automatics being so "modern" is not based in fact. Sports cars have kept manuals have used them for driver involvement. Porsche is pushing their PDK for economic reasons. Their "shut up and drive it" is not a customer focused approach and may hurt Porsche in the end. It ignores a large segment of their US market who prefer manuals. I drove had a loaner with the PDK and was underwhelmed. It removes a key element of the driver's control and experience. If you prefer PDK OK, that should be your choice but manuals are not archaic by any stretch of the imagination.
10-30-2013, 11:16 PM
#71
Okay MT'ers. Hang in there. Having less around might make them more valuable in future. Just bought a '66 Vette and paid a premium for 4-speed manual. And not to stop this momentum, although Suzie has her final opinion and one not to offend, so does everyone. Mine is MT's are more fun. So what?
10-31-2013, 09:24 AM
#73
Race Car
10-31-2013, 10:58 AM
#74
I want to go back to the op thread, and not to debate manual vs pdk....
I still don't believe Porsche gonna stop producing manual, some models but not all, I can understand track specific models but now everyday kinda car like the cayman and regular 911. Just my opinion, they still want to keep their traditional porsche fan/customers. Make sense business wise.
I still don't believe Porsche gonna stop producing manual, some models but not all, I can understand track specific models but now everyday kinda car like the cayman and regular 911. Just my opinion, they still want to keep their traditional porsche fan/customers. Make sense business wise.
10-31-2013, 11:29 AM
#75
PDK is my choice.
That's a joke right? The 991 is NOT a race car. It is at best a sports car bordering on GT. That's OK because I don't want a race car. I hope the GT3 RS comes with MT for the track for all you budding Vettels out there. The original PDK goes back MORE than 15 years ago. It was used in the Can-am race cars in 1984/85. Drivers like Donohue and Redmond used it. The reason it did not appear in road cars till 2009 is because they were too large. Technology/computerization has allowed them to be in road cars. I fully understand why there are people who want MT. I drove MT for 25 years. But DON'T tell me it's not in keeping with the sports car/race car experience. Do you understand that F1/Indy cars haven't used MT in over 15 years? My new 911/50 arrives tomorrow with PDK/PDCC/SPASM/PCCB. All high levels of technology. Retro is nice for some people. I just perfer cutting edge technology. When I drive, I won't say I miss MT....I'll say this is what Sebastion Vettel uses...or I'll say Ferrari has totally abandoned MT...or maybe I'll say that this is faster than MT and allows me to concentrate on other aspects of my lesser driving abilities. G-D forbid, maybe I'll say that a new Vette would be awesome with this tranny but GM can afford to put it in their new best sports car. Either way, MT is great for those that want it but I like looking at '63 Vette's....not driving them.