Sharkwerks exhaust 991 review needed
07-03-2013, 02:20 PM
#16
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Good information above. I'm thoroughly enjoying my base 991 with my only regret being not getting the PSE - so this definitely perked my interest.
I didn't realize you were local up in Fremont (I'm in SJ) - so will have to drop by. Was the demo video a customer or personal car - wondering if I could hear the set up in person?
I didn't realize you were local up in Fremont (I'm in SJ) - so will have to drop by. Was the demo video a customer or personal car - wondering if I could hear the set up in person?
You're right the PSE set up is a nice one. Probably the best yet as far as the factory is concerned.
The car in the video is part of the SharkWerks family if you will and was featured here:
http://www.sharkwerks.com/news.php?news_id=211
I can arrange a demo although to be honest it will be different than on your car now because it will have a Tubi center as well. Actually the sound won't be the same on a 3.4 vs 3.8 either. We'll be doing more and more of these over the coming weeks too with _just_ our set up too so it won't be hard to figure something out.
And as I was saying above we're about making folks happy... if it's not what you want we can always take it back etc...
Hi Alex,
Thanks for the info. I agree when one launches a product out there, there are more considerations to it than just bending and soldering some pipes. Droning and safety are 2 examples of the concerns.
Rolando from Canada had asked me to contact you as he recently had his GT3 exhaust upgraded. I do however have a question for you:
As many other exhaust upgrades available outthere do offer a version for the Base 991 and another version for the S 991... will Shark Werks offer a version for the base 991 without having to get S tips in the near future? Although reasonably priced just below $1000, the tips and the exhaust upgrade together will cost near $2000.
Thanks for the info. I agree when one launches a product out there, there are more considerations to it than just bending and soldering some pipes. Droning and safety are 2 examples of the concerns.
Rolando from Canada had asked me to contact you as he recently had his GT3 exhaust upgraded. I do however have a question for you:
As many other exhaust upgrades available outthere do offer a version for the Base 991 and another version for the S 991... will Shark Werks offer a version for the base 991 without having to get S tips in the near future? Although reasonably priced just below $1000, the tips and the exhaust upgrade together will cost near $2000.
This involved a center replacement sort of like we did on the 997.2 but none of us thought the sound improvement was good enough to go forward and make a center replacement design
I know what you mean in terms of the tips. I really like the factory S tips best but I'm guessing they're up there in price, right? I can look into it more though.
07-03-2013, 04:57 PM
#17
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Yes - it's pretty much a deal killer for those of us with a base model. The S tips run the same cost as your exhaust! Bummer.
07-09-2013, 12:35 AM
#18
Instructor
Hi Alex,
Have you experimented on how your side muffler bypass exhaust would sound with cars that already have PSE but whose owners want a bit more sound over and above the PSE (PSE only involves the centre muffler, correct)?
I'm thinking of speccing my soon to be ordered 3.4L 991 with PSE but was wondering if this is an option if I wanted more sound after the fact.
Thanks in advance!
Have you experimented on how your side muffler bypass exhaust would sound with cars that already have PSE but whose owners want a bit more sound over and above the PSE (PSE only involves the centre muffler, correct)?
I'm thinking of speccing my soon to be ordered 3.4L 991 with PSE but was wondering if this is an option if I wanted more sound after the fact.
Thanks in advance!
07-09-2013, 02:13 PM
#19
Instructor
As part of the community I hope you don't mind but I figured I would try to address /explain and hopefully not bore you too much in the process. I'm all for DIY'ing and over the years we've certainly encouraged and/or helped explain what/how to do that (for free). I'm on an iphone so my options are a bit limited too (sorry for any typos and what not).
As an ex DIY'er myself I know it would be really hard to reproduce something of this quality in terms of the tools used, R&D, precision, materials etc... for $250. We haven't officially released our part yet but as with all of our previous exhaust offerings I know we've been on the lower end of the "expense" scale vs often 4, 5, 6 and in some cases 13k offerings! Sure we try to always go with something that fits, sounds and flows well as simply and as best as we can (now let me go into that statement- and sorry if I've put you to sleep).
Assuming you were to buy or pay for high grade steel tubes, then bypass steps like robotically bend, swedge, precision cut and tig-weld. You'd also need to R&D here and make a jig perhaps based on some stock mufflers for which you'd need a donor car and extra exhaust (and more for PSE etc...) to make sure fitment is ok. Once you've designed, then CAD drawn and made a prototype you'd want to test fit and make adjustments as needed. Maybe you could have someone lend you these tools for free, there is always that possibility. I figured most muffler shops are used to welding in cats on a Tundra or working on so many different vehicles where as we only specialize in Porsche. You'd have to be comfortable that they could take apart your car without damaging and putting it back together. The 991 bumper removal (which is required for these things) is tougher and more of a hassle than on the 997s sadly. I'm sure the muffler shop would charge something for that too... Plus how good is the welding going to be? Will it hold up on the track or not etc...? Then you need to figure out some sort of mounting solution... this is where it gets tricky. You need to do this absolutely dead right or you'll get a lot of vibration and or other unwanted side effects. I won't go too much into but try pricing out just a set of the reciprocating exhaust mounts for both sides. We chose to make something that was factory fit- not the easy option either but they did it that way for a reason. These DFI engines and exhausts have are so prone to vibration as we learned on the 997. Then you'd need hardware/bolts etc... And indeed by that time a muffler shop might well charge you north of $700 or so and that would be very cheap for a one off (often they charge more for that). So in terms a 1/4 of the price I think you might be thinking of the old 996 and 997 "Gundo Hack" as its called. Sure in that case it really is only a short tube welded on both mufflers that connects and bypasses like a PSE. Even that service usually costs $280 (not including the labor to install/remove) on average and that is indeed a much different thing. I've seen it done decently well for $280 and then I've seen some that have completely come apart as not all muffler shop jobs are equal. On our side as much as I'd like to do this for free and honestly we all do a lot of stuff for free at the shop too we have the list above and beyond to cover. We've also got to make sure that it's something we reproduce and is reliable each time, along with boxing, shipping (the labor to do it) etc.. all which isn't free either. We have to feed those guys too
Thinking about ways for us to make it a couple of hundred less... There's always cheaper materials and labor force. Sure one could make these off-site in China/Taiwan with shoddy material but the thought of 13/14 year old kids working for pennies and essentially being abused since their labor laws are so different doesn't exactly sound appealing either. Sorry in a previous life I visited many motherboard/video card factories in Asia during the late 90s and early 2000s. The level of exploitation didn't get erased from my memory and as an owner of a California based US company with really good (but yes expensive!) tools and workers at my disposal I also feel for a couple of hundred more it's well-worth the effort and resultant quality to keep our corner of the US economy going
I've gone on too long so if you're not asleep by now I know I've missed out a lot of the process and costs involved here but hopefully you get some idea etc.... I haven't posted close ups of these (usually because others end up copying and sending it to Asia etc...) but I know the folks that have seen/heard it thus far have been pretty stoked having owned our previous products on older gen cars. We haven't yet officially released these except to our local and existing customers but we're close to doing a full-on launch soon...
I'm glad there is always a choice and on our part we're really here to make Porsche enthusiasts a bit more excited/happy about an already great platform. We've always said we are not twisting anyone's arm to buy from us and even if you do and for whatever reason you don't jive with it just send it back full refund. We're not into making people unhappy and indeed everyone at Shark Werks could/should and/or already has done other more financially rewarding work but we do want to keep swimming too.
I'm not going to speak for Tubi but I am comfy with their price as far as the quality, sound et al. Everyone that's had it installed has liked it and hence we offer it. There are a lot of 5-6k exhausts I don't offer and won't because they don't fit the criteria...
PS Oh and those rubber sharks y'all seem to like so much- they're not free either lol! Well hopefully your kids end up getting into sharks and not eating shark fin soup as a result. In fact, the proceeds for those lil' guys goes to a charity too...
As an ex DIY'er myself I know it would be really hard to reproduce something of this quality in terms of the tools used, R&D, precision, materials etc... for $250. We haven't officially released our part yet but as with all of our previous exhaust offerings I know we've been on the lower end of the "expense" scale vs often 4, 5, 6 and in some cases 13k offerings! Sure we try to always go with something that fits, sounds and flows well as simply and as best as we can (now let me go into that statement- and sorry if I've put you to sleep).
Assuming you were to buy or pay for high grade steel tubes, then bypass steps like robotically bend, swedge, precision cut and tig-weld. You'd also need to R&D here and make a jig perhaps based on some stock mufflers for which you'd need a donor car and extra exhaust (and more for PSE etc...) to make sure fitment is ok. Once you've designed, then CAD drawn and made a prototype you'd want to test fit and make adjustments as needed. Maybe you could have someone lend you these tools for free, there is always that possibility. I figured most muffler shops are used to welding in cats on a Tundra or working on so many different vehicles where as we only specialize in Porsche. You'd have to be comfortable that they could take apart your car without damaging and putting it back together. The 991 bumper removal (which is required for these things) is tougher and more of a hassle than on the 997s sadly. I'm sure the muffler shop would charge something for that too... Plus how good is the welding going to be? Will it hold up on the track or not etc...? Then you need to figure out some sort of mounting solution... this is where it gets tricky. You need to do this absolutely dead right or you'll get a lot of vibration and or other unwanted side effects. I won't go too much into but try pricing out just a set of the reciprocating exhaust mounts for both sides. We chose to make something that was factory fit- not the easy option either but they did it that way for a reason. These DFI engines and exhausts have are so prone to vibration as we learned on the 997. Then you'd need hardware/bolts etc... And indeed by that time a muffler shop might well charge you north of $700 or so and that would be very cheap for a one off (often they charge more for that). So in terms a 1/4 of the price I think you might be thinking of the old 996 and 997 "Gundo Hack" as its called. Sure in that case it really is only a short tube welded on both mufflers that connects and bypasses like a PSE. Even that service usually costs $280 (not including the labor to install/remove) on average and that is indeed a much different thing. I've seen it done decently well for $280 and then I've seen some that have completely come apart as not all muffler shop jobs are equal. On our side as much as I'd like to do this for free and honestly we all do a lot of stuff for free at the shop too we have the list above and beyond to cover. We've also got to make sure that it's something we reproduce and is reliable each time, along with boxing, shipping (the labor to do it) etc.. all which isn't free either. We have to feed those guys too
Thinking about ways for us to make it a couple of hundred less... There's always cheaper materials and labor force. Sure one could make these off-site in China/Taiwan with shoddy material but the thought of 13/14 year old kids working for pennies and essentially being abused since their labor laws are so different doesn't exactly sound appealing either. Sorry in a previous life I visited many motherboard/video card factories in Asia during the late 90s and early 2000s. The level of exploitation didn't get erased from my memory and as an owner of a California based US company with really good (but yes expensive!) tools and workers at my disposal I also feel for a couple of hundred more it's well-worth the effort and resultant quality to keep our corner of the US economy going
I've gone on too long so if you're not asleep by now I know I've missed out a lot of the process and costs involved here but hopefully you get some idea etc.... I haven't posted close ups of these (usually because others end up copying and sending it to Asia etc...) but I know the folks that have seen/heard it thus far have been pretty stoked having owned our previous products on older gen cars. We haven't yet officially released these except to our local and existing customers but we're close to doing a full-on launch soon...
I'm glad there is always a choice and on our part we're really here to make Porsche enthusiasts a bit more excited/happy about an already great platform. We've always said we are not twisting anyone's arm to buy from us and even if you do and for whatever reason you don't jive with it just send it back full refund. We're not into making people unhappy and indeed everyone at Shark Werks could/should and/or already has done other more financially rewarding work but we do want to keep swimming too.
I'm not going to speak for Tubi but I am comfy with their price as far as the quality, sound et al. Everyone that's had it installed has liked it and hence we offer it. There are a lot of 5-6k exhausts I don't offer and won't because they don't fit the criteria...
PS Oh and those rubber sharks y'all seem to like so much- they're not free either lol! Well hopefully your kids end up getting into sharks and not eating shark fin soup as a result. In fact, the proceeds for those lil' guys goes to a charity too...
Well, as long as there is real performance improvement with the system that backs up the R&D time and energy you spent on it, then it definitely justify the price.
One thing though... Taiwan manufacturing is nothing like you mentioned. That's the only thing I want to correct you.
07-10-2013, 03:09 PM
#20
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I agree with most of the things you said. Yes, there is going to be R&D that cost money. The first few systems will be expensive. But once it is mass produced, the cost of it should be pretty low.
Well, as long as there is real performance improvement with the system that backs up the R&D time and energy you spent on it, then it definitely justify the price.
One thing though... Taiwan manufacturing is nothing like you mentioned. That's the only thing I want to correct you.
Well, as long as there is real performance improvement with the system that backs up the R&D time and energy you spent on it, then it definitely justify the price.
One thing though... Taiwan manufacturing is nothing like you mentioned. That's the only thing I want to correct you.
In terms of the manufacturing... I've actually spent a lot of time in Taiwan with my old gig... reviewing/visiting motherboard, video card manufacturers there and the standard is MUCH higher for workers there than China which is way more unregulated. I think you're confused that I said Taiwan where I was referring to China
07-10-2013, 03:11 PM
#21
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Hi Alex,
Have you experimented on how your side muffler bypass exhaust would sound with cars that already have PSE but whose owners want a bit more sound over and above the PSE (PSE only involves the centre muffler, correct)?
I'm thinking of speccing my soon to be ordered 3.4L 991 with PSE but was wondering if this is an option if I wanted more sound after the fact.
Thanks in advance!
Have you experimented on how your side muffler bypass exhaust would sound with cars that already have PSE but whose owners want a bit more sound over and above the PSE (PSE only involves the centre muffler, correct)?
I'm thinking of speccing my soon to be ordered 3.4L 991 with PSE but was wondering if this is an option if I wanted more sound after the fact.
Thanks in advance!
It's designed to work with it and just bear in mind it'll be a bit louder is allRoger that those can be pricey eh? I'll look around for alternatives..... Speaking of high costs lol!
07-10-2013, 05:32 PM
#22
Instructor
Hi yxc145... glad you do agree and to be honest we're not a huge place that will ever mass produce. We make them in batches of 10 or 20 max at a time. That's what also keeps costs high. We just couldn't really ever do 100s at a time. Maybe a larger scale tuner could for sure.
In terms of the manufacturing... I've actually spent a lot of time in Taiwan with my old gig... reviewing/visiting motherboard, video card manufacturers there and the standard is MUCH higher for workers there than China which is way more unregulated. I think you're confused that I said Taiwan where I was referring to China
In terms of the manufacturing... I've actually spent a lot of time in Taiwan with my old gig... reviewing/visiting motherboard, video card manufacturers there and the standard is MUCH higher for workers there than China which is way more unregulated. I think you're confused that I said Taiwan where I was referring to China
07-12-2013, 10:56 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
Hi. Sending you a PM. Definitely interested but were you able to find any alternatives to needing the S tips given i have a base?
07-12-2013, 02:15 PM
#24
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08-23-2013, 12:35 PM
#25
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Question, I have a S with PSE, do I still have the side mufflers? If so, could I still install your sport replacement mainly for the weight savings? Is it correct to say that it would it keep same noise level with PSE off and be louder with PSE on?
Is there any HP advantage for having a less restricted airflow?
Thanks.
Is there any HP advantage for having a less restricted airflow?
Thanks.
08-23-2013, 01:11 PM
#26
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Question, I have a S with PSE, do I still have the side mufflers? If so, could I still install your sport replacement mainly for the weight savings? Is it correct to say that it would it keep same noise level with PSE off and be louder with PSE on?
Is there any HP advantage for having a less restricted airflow?
Thanks.
Is there any HP advantage for having a less restricted airflow?
Thanks.
10-09-2013, 11:00 PM
#27
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Guys i installed a bypass exhaust for the side mufflers and its loud but the sound is awesome, I have a C4S 2013 and just love the sound , when putting it in sports mode it gets more aggressive sounding and pressing the exhaust button also really comes to Life . I'll say this get the SharkWerks bypass exhaust its built to bolt to the OEM Brackets which I thought was way better then not having it to bolt up to nothing , The AP Bypass it kept me guessing is it gonna get loose or ?? It never got loose but I would probably go with the SharkWerks ,
10-10-2013, 12:00 AM
#28
Instructor
Guys i installed a bypass exhaust for the side mufflers and its loud but the sound is awesome, I have a C4S 2013 and just love the sound , when putting it in sports mode it gets more aggressive sounding and pressing the exhaust button also really comes to Life . I'll say this get the SharkWerks bypass exhaust its built to bolt to the OEM Brackets which I thought was way better then not having it to bolt up to nothing , The AP Bypass it kept me guessing is it gonna get loose or ?? It never got loose but I would probably go with the SharkWerks ,
So you've got factory PSE and added the Sharkwerks side mufflers (deleted stock side mufflers)?
Is there a noticeable difference in sound levels when you press the PSE (exhaust) button?
10-10-2013, 02:35 PM
#29
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Guys i installed a bypass exhaust for the side mufflers and its loud but the sound is awesome, I have a C4S 2013 and just love the sound , when putting it in sports mode it gets more aggressive sounding and pressing the exhaust button also really comes to Life . I'll say this get the SharkWerks bypass exhaust its built to bolt to the OEM Brackets which I thought was way better then not having it to bolt up to nothing , The AP Bypass it kept me guessing is it gonna get loose or ?? It never got loose but I would probably go with the SharkWerks ,
I do agree.. it's pretty AGGRO and not for the feint-hearted... Those of you that want a quieter set up, this is NOT itNod on the brackets. It took us longer to come out with it because of the weird factory style mounts but it felt like the safer/right thing to do according to James:P
10-10-2013, 02:48 PM
#30
Instructor
I've heard the Sharkwerks exhaust in person on the first 2 cars to have it installed in the Toronto area and I can tell you it sounds awesome!! (They were non-PSE "S" cars)
I'm awaiting my 2014 Carrera S (Nov delivery) and I'm going with the Sharkwerks exhaust plus getting the centre PSE (and button) retrofitted at the dealers's Tuning department!! Can't wait for the "bloody" noise!
I'm awaiting my 2014 Carrera S (Nov delivery) and I'm going with the Sharkwerks exhaust plus getting the centre PSE (and button) retrofitted at the dealers's Tuning department!! Can't wait for the "bloody" noise!