C4s vs jag f type
06-20-2013, 12:51 AM
#16
Race Director
Thread Starter
First race cars dont have power steering.
Secondly it has to do w/ effort and eventually fatigue. To test this grab a weight and try steering it w/ the arms fully and partially extended. Its easier w/ the weight closer to body where one can engage the larger muscles.
Secondly it has to do w/ effort and eventually fatigue. To test this grab a weight and try steering it w/ the arms fully and partially extended. Its easier w/ the weight closer to body where one can engage the larger muscles.
06-20-2013, 12:58 AM
#17
You have more leverage on the wheel when it's close. Important if you need to make a sudden correction. Moving the wheel further away is often more comfortable but you have less control authority. Also depends on whether you keep hold of the wheel or shuffle steer.
06-20-2013, 05:37 AM
#19
Three Wheelin'
Not ALL racing drivers sit close to the wheel. I think rally drivers sit farther away !
Look at Porsche's own Walter Rohrl. He doesn't sit so close to the wheel either like every other Porsche instructor seems to teach. Had several discussions with Porschistas about this, and they really have a strong, fixed and almost indoctrinated idea about this. "You must sit close because on track everyone sits close" is their rationale.
WRONG offcourse. A road car has a totally different steering rack than a racecar. In racecars you can go lock to lock without taking your hands of the wheel. Impossible in a roadcar. Hence the need to sit farther away in a road car. Your arms would get tangled up if the need arises to catch a slide when you sit as close as the racers. Furthermore on the road we take sharper bends. Backroad blasting to me is more related to rally driving (minus the enormous slides offcourse) than to track driving.
Anyway that was what I was thought by a champion rally driver !
And honestly in practice, on the road, I feel that he was right, and most Porschistas are wrong.
YMMV !
Look at Porsche's own Walter Rohrl. He doesn't sit so close to the wheel either like every other Porsche instructor seems to teach. Had several discussions with Porschistas about this, and they really have a strong, fixed and almost indoctrinated idea about this. "You must sit close because on track everyone sits close" is their rationale.
WRONG offcourse. A road car has a totally different steering rack than a racecar. In racecars you can go lock to lock without taking your hands of the wheel. Impossible in a roadcar. Hence the need to sit farther away in a road car. Your arms would get tangled up if the need arises to catch a slide when you sit as close as the racers. Furthermore on the road we take sharper bends. Backroad blasting to me is more related to rally driving (minus the enormous slides offcourse) than to track driving.
Anyway that was what I was thought by a champion rally driver !
And honestly in practice, on the road, I feel that he was right, and most Porschistas are wrong.
YMMV !
Last edited by bccars; 06-20-2013 at 07:07 AM.
06-20-2013, 06:48 AM
#20
Burning Brakes
Driving position depends on a lot of aspects. The height of the driver, strength of the muscles, etc.
It also depends, like bccars mentioned, which kind of driving you are doing.
On a track you use different techniques than on a rallycourse or on an oval. Look at Nascar drivers when they drive on an oval. They are very close to the wheel. That way they have full control for those long races (where they don't have to take sharp turns), without the muscles become fatigued. When they drive on a roadtrack, you'll see that they have a different driving position, more suitable for road/trackdriving.
Because Rally drivers have to react much more and faster they sit further back. They can do that because a normal rally trial is about 20-25 minutes. When you look close to some videos of for example Paris-Dakar, you'll see that the drivers there are sitting closer to the wheel than they normally do in Rally cars. All because of fatigue and the combination of it with control.
Formula 1 you can't really compare, because they are lying almost horizontally in the car (knees are at chest height) and have a completely different steering rack.
For road driving, the best used technique is in my opinion a mix between rally-position and track-position, because of the different steering rack compared to a racecar.
Another aspect that has an effect on the driving position is the transmission that is used. If you drive a classic manual transmission, the distance between steering wheel and gear lever defines your driving position, not even mentioning the distance to the clutch pedal. In a normal road car that is. In racing cars the gear lever is much better placed than in most road cars. Porsche did a good job there, by placing the stick high enough and close to the steering wheel.
When you drive a PDK or another kind of DCT or an automatic, you only have to concentrate on the best way to hold your steering wheel and often you can sit a little bit further back. (If your legs are long enough of course)
But above all you have to sit in a position that feels comfortably, gives you the best control and won't give you fatigued muscles. No matter what anyone else says. It's different for every single person.
Suzy991
It also depends, like bccars mentioned, which kind of driving you are doing.
On a track you use different techniques than on a rallycourse or on an oval. Look at Nascar drivers when they drive on an oval. They are very close to the wheel. That way they have full control for those long races (where they don't have to take sharp turns), without the muscles become fatigued. When they drive on a roadtrack, you'll see that they have a different driving position, more suitable for road/trackdriving.
Because Rally drivers have to react much more and faster they sit further back. They can do that because a normal rally trial is about 20-25 minutes. When you look close to some videos of for example Paris-Dakar, you'll see that the drivers there are sitting closer to the wheel than they normally do in Rally cars. All because of fatigue and the combination of it with control.
Formula 1 you can't really compare, because they are lying almost horizontally in the car (knees are at chest height) and have a completely different steering rack.
For road driving, the best used technique is in my opinion a mix between rally-position and track-position, because of the different steering rack compared to a racecar.
Another aspect that has an effect on the driving position is the transmission that is used. If you drive a classic manual transmission, the distance between steering wheel and gear lever defines your driving position, not even mentioning the distance to the clutch pedal. In a normal road car that is. In racing cars the gear lever is much better placed than in most road cars. Porsche did a good job there, by placing the stick high enough and close to the steering wheel.
When you drive a PDK or another kind of DCT or an automatic, you only have to concentrate on the best way to hold your steering wheel and often you can sit a little bit further back. (If your legs are long enough of course)
But above all you have to sit in a position that feels comfortably, gives you the best control and won't give you fatigued muscles. No matter what anyone else says. It's different for every single person.
Suzy991
06-20-2013, 06:52 AM
#21
Burning Brakes
06-25-2013, 04:46 PM
#22
Race Director
Thread Starter