oldman40

point well taken, but none of those analog mechanisms seem to have brought the fun and satisfaction that manual driving does. in fact, probably none of the MT "purists" would find (me included) the manual mode of the pdk enjoyable either.

the mt just gets you physically integrated with the workings of the vehicle, like playing the piano, or hitting a golf ball, or shooting the perfect jump shot. there is positive and negative feedback, a learning curve, and a pursuit of perfection that just is hard to give up, despite the rational fact that pdk performs all that better than even semipro racers.

triode

Indeed. Get this man a scotch!

Mike in CA

I was the purist of the pure. No automatics of any kind from 1966, when I got my license, to 1994 when my wife finally said "enough" to 20 years of MT's in family cars and demanded an automatic for herself. Bought each of my kids a 5sp VW Jetta and they had to learn on them. Used to think automatics were for people who didn't really like cars. (Of course PDK isn't really an "automatic"). Anyway, now I love PDK and will order it on my next Porsche too.

Times change, technology improves, people grow; even "purists". I don't disagree with your other points (although I bet you don't hit a wood-shafted persimmon driver ), just sayin'....

STALKER99

I can't believe what I just did, but after talking to my buddies who have PDK, DCT and my wife...I think I'm going to change my order to PDK. I hope I don't regret it, really really really hope I don't.

Lebreeze

This is going to be my first porsche. So I defiantly want to experience the manual first. I'm sure I will own many double clutch PDK's in my life. Just not ready yet

chuck911

Oaky, but surely even professional racers, in their heart of hearts, wish they could be driving manual tranny with a chrome skull with glowing red eyes! Of course they will never admit this....

Old habits die hard. And I'm totally one of those guys who always drove MT, deeply enjoying the quiet satisfaction of being in the right gear at the right time, glowing inside with pride every time someone would notice my beautiful down-shifts, etc etc. But the cold fact of the matter is that the now unnecessary necessity of having to remove one hand from the wheel, upsetting your whole balance with the car by having to raise one foot up and move it around, not to mention the balance of the whole car as power is interrupted and reapplied, means that PDK not only performs better, it actually gets you BETTER, not worse, "physically integrated with the workings of the vehicle".

Granted the habits are so ingrained in anyone used to decades of driving stick they'll never notice these things, or discount them if they do, or maybe even be in complete denial. In those cases all I would ask is that the next time you go to the track or autocross have a passenger ride along and remind you to "shift" and make sure that every time they say this you remove one hand and foot and wave them over the shifter and clutch, while momentarily lifting off and then reapplying the throttle. Then ask if these movements improve your feeling of connectedness.... or not. My bet is anyone trying this will in time be able to do it fast enough and maintain control well enough that after a while run times will return pretty much to where they were. But I will also bet that anyone trying this will be asking themselves, "why? I just want to accelerate and corner. I don't want to be waving my foot and arm all over the place."

Exactly.

jondavid

i started off C2S PDK and ordered C2 MT literally for the fun of it -- loved the combo.

When I go TT in a few years, I'll go PDK.

I know this dilemma well, but everyone here is right. Either way -- there is no substitute.

simsgw

In all objectivity, I can say you're not likely to regret it. I was pushed into it by my doctor who disliked the repeated torque applied to my lumbar by a clutch, but I don't push easily (like some clutches) and I spent a few weeks evaluating the options before conceding. I was swayed of course by the immense weight of positive reviews building up from advocates of the manual transmission who have gone to PDK. Several friends in particular, but also the general praise.

I have thought about the reasons we like PDK, mostly in silence, because this really is personal preference. But as this thread recurs, I have noticed a common trend that suggests something I'd like to offer.

Those of us who have used a manual transmission for decades, and especially in sporting driving that requires finesse, do enjoy the exercise of a skill we've mastered. Certainly that's true, and I settle down quickly to playing the transmission like a musical instrument when a student asks me to demonstrate a track technique in their own car. But I don't get any particular 'fun' from using a clutch. That device isn't the 'playing' part of the equation. I'm actually playing the transmission and more broadly, the car itself. The clutch is just an invisible tool like a pick in a guitarist's hand when he wants one. I don't think about using the clutch these days. Once in a while, a challenging car will arise. Usually with a worn clutch or one badly adjusted. That's how I know I'm usually not thinking about it, because on those occasions I consciously do the things that became second nature on most cars almost half a century ago. It's... okay, it's like the days when my mother and I could not get a car started, but my dad would sit in it, fiddle with the choke and maybe pump the throttle once or twice, and shazam! I'm sure he enjoyed the choke for that moment of triumph, but the rest of the time... no. I doubt it was part of the pleasure of driving.

The clutch, like the choke **** that Chuck911 mentioned, is part of the fun only as long as it requires thought. Once it is a skill completely conquered, it's not part of the experience, it's part of the background.

Once I got past the twitching left foot, I began playing the PDK the same way I did my six-speed manual. Except that I had an assistant, that Stig-in-a-Box, handling all the routine shifts for me. I only intervene when my judgment is superior to his, and that makes the subtle joy of precise control even more entertaining, because at those moments, it is not routine and getting just the right gear for the job becomes a special feeling. I rarely use manual mode. I just take the reins for a few seconds, or a single corner complex, when I "feel the need", or more often when I see something that SiaB cannot, what with being tucked inside a box and all.

A clutch is just another control, and my left thumb (or the right as need be) can be just as satisfying a method. Because it's the result, the selection of the right gear for each moment, that is the real point.

Heaven knows we don't need more fuel for dispute, but I also prefer the levers on the multi-function wheel over the paddles on the sport wheel. I like either hand to have either direction of change available. Again, just personal preference, but I really did not enjoy being limited to one hand for upshifts and the other for downshifts. I also don't use the fore and aft motion of the shift lever for two reasons.

1. Once you get used to having both hands available for steering, it's awkward and feels unnecessary to take one hand off to command a shift. And this comes from a guy accustomed to using one hand on a stick and one hand for secondary controls in aircraft. Notice I did not say I couldn't use the shift lever. I can, but it just seems like waste motion when I have a control on the wheel right under my fingers.
2. The shift lever on a PDK is modal and that's always a risk in track work. I mean to say that moving it commands a shift when you have put the transmission in 'manual' mode, but when you have not, when it is in the routine position, then trying to command a shift pushes the lever to the neutral position and the engine tries to over-rev. Really quite embarrassing on my first track day because I naturally assumed the PDK had failed, threw up an arm, and dove to a safe position off the racing line to see what happened. My student shared my concern until we figured out what happened. Then we both laughed. But he laughed a little more heartily.

I use the levers on the wheel since then. And I'm quite happy with them.

Gary

Terrence

Just to clarify, I was curious with the PDK and so I bought a 2009 C4S cab new from a dealer in 2009. Had it for a year, then sold it to buy a 2010 manual 997 C2S. Then bought a 2011 manual Carrera GTS. Now getting a 2013 manual Carrera 4S. I test drove the 2012 PDK Carrera S several times too, so I am aware of the "improvement" from the 2012. I still ordered a manual C4S. Funny, when I got the 2009 PDK C4S, my wife laughed at me for buying an automatic Porsche. I hate it when she proves to be right.

neanicu

Yes,PDK is the better transmission!
Yes,it's just as fun as a manual!
Yes,I'm a manual guy and won't switch while it's still being offered!
No,I won't mention anything about driver's involvement!
No,manual drivers are not better drivers!
No,I won't say anything bad about a 911 with an automatic transmission!

But let me say something that hasn't been mentioned here : You know what....the manual is cheaper!
Rather use 5 grand for PDCC,PTS,Sport Chrono,PSE or a full leather interior. Even the Aerokit or use some of it for the Power Kit seem more rewarding to me than PDK.

Nicoli35

Well, gosh..you guys..

I took the long way home from the meeting tonite. As usual.

2wheels4me

Yeah, boy! Nice!

John's 991

I love the PDK transmission. It shifts so well that I almost always let it shift itself on the street or the track. It seems that there is always one place where I want an earlier downshift at the tracks I drive, so just use the paddles for that.

My last car was a manual, and while I never had any problems shifting, rev matching, etc. I don't miss it and have not looked back. There are still plenty of things that keep me engaged.

DOCX51

You won't.

e3113v

I'm glad that PDK has been brought up to snuff. I've test driven it and I really like it. It's worthy enough to be in a Porsche! ... vs. MT? It's all personal preference... grok the fullness of the drive! --like my Heinlein reference?

Nicoli35: That's what I'm talking about! Thanks for sharing.
My car is hibernating here on the east coast so your vid made my day... great perspective... was a bit dark to see but I'm pretty sure you had a huge Cheshire Cat grin as you rowed those gears...'nuff said