Chris@Fabspeed

Wanted to clarify this for everyone - Our install and dyno tech, Rob, used to work for Don Rosen (Porsche of Conshohoken) where the car was taken in. He still has good relations with the people that are still there and gave them a call after hearing from David, our sales associate handling Darrne, of the CEL and Don Rosen pointing to the intake as the issue. Turns out the car has cooling system codes but Don Rosen did not want to address those with an aftermarket intake on the car.

speed21

I think you'll find it goes a lot deeper than that. I read an interesting article in a manufacturers news journal last year (can't recall if it was ZF's or Mahle's) about the new 991's airbox system being an integral part of the engine's induction system. As a supplier we get these sent to us. The 991's air box works in synergy with the plenum system of the engine where both work to produce a range of different outcomes. Removing it and replacing it with what you have is basically like cutting one of the engine's legs off. Needless to say the ability of your intake to cool and clean the air correctly is totally removed given the air stream the system is exposed to.

The new air box systems Mahle are designing these days a actually very high tech pieces of kit http://www.mahle.com/MAHLE/en/Produc...intake-systems

If i still have that journal i'll put the article up. I'll take a look when i get in to the office.

Chris@Fabspeed

Hi,

At this time we are not claiming any increase in power with the side mufflers by themselves. I can tell you they do increase power, slighty, above 6,200. Most of the gains Darren is feeling come from the intake, below is the dyno chart.

rijowysock

wish this was out when i had 991.. perfect setup that fits on base and S... since u eliminate center and sides... makes them all universal.

and sounds great.

Nicoli35

I just want the extra sound while keeping PSE intact.

speed21

Frankly i see the claim of "sounding better" as being far too subjective to be taken as any sort of given. Every AM system has its own sound, so who's to say which is "better".

Increasing the exterior volume seems to be the main thing going on here....not that the PSE isn't loud enough for the car but i guess it really depends on how much attention you feel you need to draw to yourself.

That AM air filter system on the other hand is a very crude arrangement indeed, and its placement incredibly ill conceived at best. Kind of makes one wonder how much attention has been pid to the fundamentals....which raises other other questions as well......but i won't go there. I think the unit says enough all on its own. To say it has "somehow" managed to supercharge air into the engine to create additional HP beggars belief regardless of what has been put up as its dyno chart. I mean how would we ever really know what that belongs to? Or are we to just take "the word"?

I'm certainly not convinced the level of R and D that went into fitting a piece of Y pipe with 2 small cone filters to this engine would do anything at all, least of all providing a superior outcome than the factory unit which was produced by a highly skilled dedicated team at Mahle...and no doubt in conjunction with the engineers at Porsche AG too.

Maybe Mahle and Porsche should be sacking their entire team of engineers for wasting so much time and energy when all they needed to do is to bolt on a tube with two cone filters.

LOL Guys. You can't possibly be serious.

ThePartsMan

So if I throw in my $.02, I was planning on the air intake and side mufflers, but have decided and concluded that Porsche knows what they are doing and if their stock 991s power output could be improved upon, they would have done it. I prefer to forgo the headaches with aftermarket upgrades and just leave mine stock. When I want or need more power, I will just buy the 991 tri-turbo when it hits the ground. At least I will have an excuse to buy one.

speed21

Sounds a wise move. Trying to eek out the last drop from a highly developed Porsche atmo engine appears to involve a number of comprises that aren't in the best interest of the engine, or car. A turbo or the atmo S power kit is a far better alternative imho. At least there has been proper thought put in by persons properly qualified.

I was going to question FS's testing in my last post, but as DBYT has clearly been the test mule for this antiquated contraption you've got to seriously question why FS were unable to get a CEL to manifest during any stage of their alleged dyno testing of this woeful unit. I mean look at the obvious. Here it is a CEL gets thrown in next to no time in real world driving yet on a dyno the engine bay would be receiving nowhere near the level of natural ventilation...so it would have picked up on the heat far quicker throwing the CEL.

The whole thing (unit, testing, and graph) looks very dodgy indeed. I only hope for DBYT's sake he got paid to have it on his car. How any "engineer" could do that to a car like this with so little thought given to the obvious is incomprehensible in my book. Truly ridiculous...

Bigfra

Or go for the X 51 upgrade

Chris@Fabspeed

Speed21,

You seem to have it out for Fabspeed, for a reason unknown to me, but I will try to address some of all of your conclusions (which are based on no concrete data but your own assumptions) in recent posts .

Firstly let me say Porsche and its suppliers have done an extremely remarkable job with the 991. Meeting ever stringent emissions, noise/vibration/harshness, and economy requirements, these cars are now more powerful than ever, and the normally aspirated models are producing more horsepower than even the recent generation turbo models.

I can appreciate your regard for factory Engineering and technical achievements, believe me, I know there is a lot of snake oil out there. However OEM's have a different engineering agenda than aftermarket performance companies and sometimes not even OEM products perform as initially tested or designed (for instance the Mahle link you have there discusses resonance tuning and oil mist separation - funny because every 996/997/986/987 intake I have taken apart has a nice layer of oil in it, even low mileage cars (where blow by is at the lowest it ever will be). We can also go on and on about Porsche's engineering shortcomings regarding engines of the last 15 years. The facts are that even Porsche do make compromises when it comes to their cars - to ignore this fact is to be truly arrogant.

In addition, you speak of the Fabspeed product as having "compromised air filtration". We use high quality filters, manufactured by Advanced Flow Engineering, to our specs. It sounds like you have been spending too much time on Bob is the Oil Guy regarding your comments. The filters are over 99% efficient while delivering greater airflow to the engine than a factory paper filter. If this is defined as compromised, then so be it. Some are willing to sacrifice a few tenths of a percent different in ultimate filtration ability for the increase in sound and power. If you do not believe the dyno charts I posted above, I invite you or anyone to our facility with a 991 and we will perform the same test right in front of your eyes.

I do appreciate your concern over dyno charts, for those than own or operate dynos we know how easy it is to manipulate the chart and post on a forum or on our website. The fact though, is that Fabspeed has just invested millions into a new facility/staff/equipment. We are all here because we love cars and want to improve upon the machines that these OEM's have engineered. We know that if we are selling snake oil products, sooner or later there will be no Fabspeed. The only way to continue to be in this competitive market is to produce products that people want, love, need to have.

Lastly please respect that fact that everyone has their own opinion and you should not speak like yours is the end all/be all, and that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. To some the factory Porsche cars are dull sounding or are lacking in some areas. To some (the person who started this thread), even the factory sport exhaust wasn't enough. We, like a few other companies, offer exhaust & intake solutions for these cars, and if our products satisfy some, then so be it. It is their money, their time, and their decision to buy our products.

And here is a picture of a factory race car intake, circa 1998-1999. Porsche had more engineering capability then, than most do now, and this is still what they came up with. Why, we will probably never know, but it makes you think, not everything they come up with is gold.

neanicu

Speed21,I'm with you 100% on this one!
Although I have nothing against Fabspeed or other aftermarket performance manufacturer and their products,nor against people using them,I can't not be puzzled by their claims.
Porsche is investing millions in research and testing and even though they can not be perfect and have made mistakes in the past and I'm sure will in the future,they are still more qualified that enthusiasts with technical skills and somewhat engineering knowledge,that simply can not keep up with a large scale manufacturer.
Although their products might produce some sort of immediate satisfaction,in the long run might bring disadvantages like warranty issues,headaches,like CEL or unnecessary engine wear.
Call me crazy,but I still believe people will modify or so called '' upgrade '' their cars for the fun involved in researching a product,finding and getting it at the right price,installing it and live with the idea that their cars are now better(sound better,have more power or look different than stock cars). It's the same fun we experience when searching for the right car...isn't it on one of these forums that I've read this line : '' The fun is in the search '' ?

exponential

I can see many aftermarket products are better than OEM. Given OEM need to save cost, easy to produce and install.

However, on this (cold?) air intake, I am 100% with Speed21

DBYT

Chris@Fabspeed,
Good meeting you today and thanks for the help and info.

The car has the factory airbox back in place with CEL gone and Fabspeed stepped up when the issue with the dealer arose. No harm no foul.

Cocodrilo

I have just installed the complete performance kit from FS on my C2S so far car runs great, and no CEL at all. The car is noticeable quicker, revs quicker, and the exhaust compared to OEM sounds 10 times better IMHO. David @ Fabspeed has been very helpful. The set up was quick and easy, bolts right in. I will give it a few more miles and will report back. I couldn't be happier.

Cocodrilo

Here is a pic of my car. I am planning to install a Techart kit soon too