Steering on C4 versus C2
01-13-2013, 04:27 AM
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Steering on C4 versus C2
Interested in early reports of C4 suggesting that steering has more feel than C2.
Most auto journalists impressions of the steering on C2 (for what they are worth) are based on their experience with early 2012 models. I recall reading somewhere that the steering setup has been altered on later 2012 and 2013 models. Any clarity on this would be helpful.
The C4 has about 50kg more weight than C2 and this is mostly at the front of the car so presumably this would make a difference.
Most auto journalists impressions of the steering on C2 (for what they are worth) are based on their experience with early 2012 models. I recall reading somewhere that the steering setup has been altered on later 2012 and 2013 models. Any clarity on this would be helpful.
The C4 has about 50kg more weight than C2 and this is mostly at the front of the car so presumably this would make a difference.
01-13-2013, 05:11 AM
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Interested in early reports of C4 suggesting that steering has more feel than C2.
Most auto journalists impressions of the steering on C2 (for what they are worth) are based on their experience with early 2012 models. I recall reading somewhere that the steering setup has been altered on later 2012 and 2013 models. Any clarity on this would be helpful.
The C4 has about 50kg more weight than C2 and this is mostly at the front of the car so presumably this would make a difference.
Most auto journalists impressions of the steering on C2 (for what they are worth) are based on their experience with early 2012 models. I recall reading somewhere that the steering setup has been altered on later 2012 and 2013 models. Any clarity on this would be helpful.
The C4 has about 50kg more weight than C2 and this is mostly at the front of the car so presumably this would make a difference.
I haven't read that however. Do you remember at all where you might have seen that discussion of steering revisions?
Gary
01-13-2013, 05:29 AM
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+1 re the steering on my October build 2013 C2S coupe - its fantastic!
Racking my brain about possible revisions to setup. Must have been a post somewhere on here.
Racking my brain about possible revisions to setup. Must have been a post somewhere on here.
01-13-2013, 05:50 AM
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i confirm drove mid December 12 brand new C2S SPASM PDCC and C4S PDDC , steering is much better on 4 wheels model by my experience, evnthough the C2S wasn t bad,too clean and light maybe,
the C42 one gives you better the idea on what s going on the front side is more "aggressive" even when the display shows most of the traction on the rear side or driving <30mph
the C42 one gives you better the idea on what s going on the front side is more "aggressive" even when the display shows most of the traction on the rear side or driving <30mph
01-13-2013, 06:06 AM
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If there is a difference what is the explanation? Is the steering actually different on the C4 or is it just that the AWD improves the feel? Or down to more weight at the front end?
01-13-2013, 07:56 AM
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I don't believe that there have been any reports of suspension geometry changes in the 2 wheel drive cars. AWD adds weight to the front and a more heft to the steering reactions. There is more work going on what with axels adding power to steering dynamics. I suspect is the additional "feel" that is reported.
The issue for the journalists seeking something critical to write about, and owners of pre 991 and 981 cars seeking something or other, is that engineers have removed the steering wheel "dance" that 911s retained even after the worse of the bump steer was overcome over the years. Anyone owning a 991 long enough, learns that the road signals are all there, minus extraneous noise.
I have an early build 2CS with Sport PASM. Control, ability to place the car, and "feel" are far better than the other four Porsches I have owned over the years. The one that came closest was a a 911 SC with suspension geometry changes including spindle relocation, that were needed to get proper geometry when the car was lowered. I would guess that the improvements in suspension geometry alone are a huge part of why the 991 can run away from earlier equivalent cars on road courses, and stay with the recent "super" models. .
The issue for the journalists seeking something critical to write about, and owners of pre 991 and 981 cars seeking something or other, is that engineers have removed the steering wheel "dance" that 911s retained even after the worse of the bump steer was overcome over the years. Anyone owning a 991 long enough, learns that the road signals are all there, minus extraneous noise.
I have an early build 2CS with Sport PASM. Control, ability to place the car, and "feel" are far better than the other four Porsches I have owned over the years. The one that came closest was a a 911 SC with suspension geometry changes including spindle relocation, that were needed to get proper geometry when the car was lowered. I would guess that the improvements in suspension geometry alone are a huge part of why the 991 can run away from earlier equivalent cars on road courses, and stay with the recent "super" models. .
01-13-2013, 05:27 PM
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I don't believe that there have been any reports of suspension geometry changes in the 2 wheel drive cars. AWD adds weight to the front and a more heft to the steering reactions. There is more work going on what with axels adding power to steering dynamics. I suspect is the additional "feel" that is reported.
The issue for the journalists seeking something critical to write about, and owners of pre 991 and 981 cars seeking something or other, is that engineers have removed the steering wheel "dance" that 911s retained even after the worse of the bump steer was overcome over the years. Anyone owning a 991 long enough, learns that the road signals are all there, minus extraneous noise.
I have an early build 2CS with Sport PASM. Control, ability to place the car, and "feel" are far better than the other four Porsches I have owned over the years. The one that came closest was a a 911 SC with suspension geometry changes including spindle relocation, that were needed to get proper geometry when the car was lowered. I would guess that the improvements in suspension geometry alone are a huge part of why the 991 can run away from earlier equivalent cars on road courses, and stay with the recent "super" models. .
The issue for the journalists seeking something critical to write about, and owners of pre 991 and 981 cars seeking something or other, is that engineers have removed the steering wheel "dance" that 911s retained even after the worse of the bump steer was overcome over the years. Anyone owning a 991 long enough, learns that the road signals are all there, minus extraneous noise.
I have an early build 2CS with Sport PASM. Control, ability to place the car, and "feel" are far better than the other four Porsches I have owned over the years. The one that came closest was a a 911 SC with suspension geometry changes including spindle relocation, that were needed to get proper geometry when the car was lowered. I would guess that the improvements in suspension geometry alone are a huge part of why the 991 can run away from earlier equivalent cars on road courses, and stay with the recent "super" models. .
G
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01-13-2013, 05:42 PM
#8
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Don't know if this is what you're refering to, but someone posted recently that 4/4S 991 models would revert to hydraulic steering assist. That was incorrect.
01-14-2013, 03:05 AM
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01-14-2013, 04:00 AM
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Well, yes, but what he says isn't what we're discussing. He just says is that "[the steering] is better. The addition of a couple of drive shafts ... just gives you something else to play against."
He's really just saying the steering feel of four-wheel drive Porsches is subtly different than it is in two-wheel drive models. His preference for it is a subjective statement, which traditionally is shared by many people, but it isn't a steering revision, just a new generation showing the traditional relationship between the C2/C2S and the C4/C4S.
Gary
He's really just saying the steering feel of four-wheel drive Porsches is subtly different than it is in two-wheel drive models. His preference for it is a subjective statement, which traditionally is shared by many people, but it isn't a steering revision, just a new generation showing the traditional relationship between the C2/C2S and the C4/C4S.
Gary
01-14-2013, 05:00 AM
#13
I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it here: With the release of the 991 in late 2011, I believe the journos got sucked into the same "change is bad" mantra as the general 911 owning public. With the result that early reviews focused too little on "what is improved in the new model" and too much on "what has been altered".
Now that the virtues of the 991 are more universally appreciated, I think the journos, in reviewing the 4wd versions, are also subtly and perhaps subconsciously re-visiting their appraisals of the rwd models in the light of a year's familiarity.
Imagine for a moment that the release dates of the rwd and 4wd models had been reversed. I bet my hat that the earlier released 4wd vesions would have garnered a reluctant 4 stars, and that the more maturely appreciated rwd cars would be basking in a glow of 5 star acclaim.
Now that the virtues of the 991 are more universally appreciated, I think the journos, in reviewing the 4wd versions, are also subtly and perhaps subconsciously re-visiting their appraisals of the rwd models in the light of a year's familiarity.
Imagine for a moment that the release dates of the rwd and 4wd models had been reversed. I bet my hat that the earlier released 4wd vesions would have garnered a reluctant 4 stars, and that the more maturely appreciated rwd cars would be basking in a glow of 5 star acclaim.
01-14-2013, 06:49 AM
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I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it here: With the release of the 991 in late 2011, I believe the journos got sucked into the same "change is bad" mantra as the general 911 owning public. With the result that early reviews focused too little on "what is improved in the new model" and too much on "what has been altered".
Now that the virtues of the 991 are more universally appreciated, I think the journos, in reviewing the 4wd versions, are also subtly and perhaps subconsciously re-visiting their appraisals of the rwd models in the light of a year's familiarity.
Imagine for a moment that the release dates of the rwd and 4wd models had been reversed. I bet my hat that the earlier released 4wd vesions would have garnered a reluctant 4 stars, and that the more maturely appreciated rwd cars would be basking in a glow of 5 star acclaim.
Now that the virtues of the 991 are more universally appreciated, I think the journos, in reviewing the 4wd versions, are also subtly and perhaps subconsciously re-visiting their appraisals of the rwd models in the light of a year's familiarity.
Imagine for a moment that the release dates of the rwd and 4wd models had been reversed. I bet my hat that the earlier released 4wd vesions would have garnered a reluctant 4 stars, and that the more maturely appreciated rwd cars would be basking in a glow of 5 star acclaim.
01-14-2013, 06:58 AM
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Well, yes, but what he says isn't what we're discussing. He just says is that "[the steering] is better. The addition of a couple of drive shafts ... just gives you something else to play against."
He's really just saying the steering feel of four-wheel drive Porsches is subtly different than it is in two-wheel drive models. His preference for it is a subjective statement, which traditionally is shared by many people, but it isn't a steering revision, just a new generation showing the traditional relationship between the C2/C2S and the C4/C4S.
Gary
He's really just saying the steering feel of four-wheel drive Porsches is subtly different than it is in two-wheel drive models. His preference for it is a subjective statement, which traditionally is shared by many people, but it isn't a steering revision, just a new generation showing the traditional relationship between the C2/C2S and the C4/C4S.
Gary
Question remains as to whether the steering "feel" of C2/C2S has changed since car was launched by virtue of "updates" to anything that might have an impact on steering. Not sure if this is real or just speculative unless someone can provide something definitive!