fast1

Well let's see... they have been making the current Corvette now for how long? Is it 8 years maybe? So after 8 years they still didn't get it right.

Yup... that new one should be a real gem the first year.

The C7 will be unveilled on January 13. It'll be interesting to see what it looks like. I wouldn't mind seeing the sticker increase by $5K, and have all of the extra cost dedicated to the interior. A $65K 425 HP base C7 with a great interior would certainly be appealing to many sports car enthusiasts.
On a side note the racing version Corvette has one of the most meanacing exhaust notes that I have ever heard. Ferraris sound elegant, Porsches sound aggressive, but the Vettes sound dam right mean. It's like they are getting ready to devour their competition.

Franklin229

Unless you are on the track every weekend, there are a lot of direct competitors to the 991 for what most 991 drivers will ultimately use their cars for. Same for folks who drive Corvettes. Bragging rights to numbers and performance specs is great for forum chat or sharing a beer but it has no real value if it is never realized day to day.

simsgw

So you'd consider a Honda CRX and the Nissan Juke when making your personal buying decision?

Gary

fester

I'm in hammond's camp ...luv bimmers and Porsches

holminator

Except I don't brag. Hence the debadging. I'm usually out looking for the next curvy road. For myself I disagree with the above assessment.

Franklin229

Hardly.
The question was about competition relative to the 991. I guess my point is unless you are a track junkie, if you are in the market for a high end "2 door GT", there are more choices or there is "less differentiation" today between the 991, its design, interior appointments, features, overall proportions, etc and other marques.

Mark Dreyer

997 GT3 RS?

Detroit Shooter

I don't get debadging, I really don't get it in the not bragging context.

Detroit Shooter

I met a photographer last night that has the new Vett in his studio and he said it looks really good.
I for one hope they correct the areas where they have fallen short in the past and give the market a run for its money.

neanicu

I think it would be great if American cars start improving and become serious competitors. Since we're talking about sports cars here's the problem : they cost a lot less. And let me explain : what I basically mean is that they don't have room for great improvements. How can you vastly improve quality,keep the price low and be profitable?

fester

I think in sports car segment, even American auto makers can jack up the price and get away with it. The demographics are such that they'll still pay for it.

simsgw

Clearly, I was just being nasty, which I was not, or I was making half a point. Here's the other half: would you consider an Ariel Atom in your shopping trip? I mean, assuming it were available where you live, and I didn't notice that.

I think you would not. Certainly almost no one in the market for a 991 would consider a Honda CRX, which is quite comfortable around towns; or the Ariel Atom, which is superb on race tracks. And if you cry that neither extreme is everything, let me offer the Lexus SC 430. Edmunds say of it: "A handsome, richly appointed interior, a smooth and sprightly V8 and top-notch build quality" while objecting to the "tiny, essentially unusable rear seats." A winner!

I mean a competitor, right? Well, not really. I'm sure in Hollywood, where a lot of my own dealer's sales originate, quite a few cross-over sales do occur. Hollywood buyers have a disproportionate number of people who got their money young and with too little personal time available to play with cars. They are exploring the possibilities, as we all did in those years of life. Just with a deeper pocket.

Elsewhere, with a more usual market profile, 991 buyers tend to be people who decided years earlier what the spirit of a car needs to be for their satisfaction. Personally, I owned a couple of dozen cars before the day came I had both the money and the leisure time to consider a Porsche. If a 'sprightly' engine were satisfactory, I'd have... well, shot myself probably. But let's say "considered a Mercedes sedan". I knew what type of car I wanted and the only real question was whether the current models of the candidates lived up to their reputation.

I considered Aston, Ferrari, Porsche, and a Mercedes sports coupe. Test driving is not the fun part when you've done enough of it over the years. I wasn't desperate for another ride in any of those cars. So I began with browsing the forum comments of actual owners and reading previously ignored articles by test drivers I respect. Think of it as a form of triage. The only candidate left for "my car" was the Porsche 911. The only test objective was to see if it lived up to my own standards in person while being tolerable to an aging enthusiast's body. It was quite possible I'd end up down the street buying what Cindy categorized as "an old man's car." I did not, though it was a near thing. Without PASM, I'd be in something floopy today, like a Jaguar.

That really doesn't mean Aston, Ferrari, and Mercedes make cars that compete with Porsche in areas my taste demands. If they did, I'd have been taking test drives back to back. What it means is that the marketing efforts overlap between them. First, money can't really be an issue for the buyer. If it were, we'd be discussing this in the 993 or 996 forums. Or maybe the 997 forum. And for me, this is why I didn't even bother to drive an:

• Aston: Elegant and stylish, but underfunded development means performance is a stretch achieved with big engines and hard suspension.
• Ferrari: Brilliant trophy car. Outrageous cost of ownership if you want one for a daily driver. Too much Scot in me to spend my money that way.
• Mercedes: Too many taxis. I lived in their other markets too much of my youth. Places where taxis and trucks are almost all Mercedes. To the world, it's their Ford or Chevy. An S550 is an elegant car, but my subconscious keeps muttering "tarted up taxi". For me, it would be like buying a Chevy Impala and taking it to a custom body shop.

I grant 'competition' between those four marques. They grab "mind share" in the market place. But I submit that once you mature enough years to know what type of car you prefer for your personal car, and presuming your professional life has yielded enough reserve to spend this much on a toy, then you won't really think seriously -- take test drives -- about more than two of those cars. Maybe three, since not everyone has had my eclectic life to inform their triage process. And after a serious day of testing, you won't have a competitor for your own selection process except different models of the marque that is you. The distinctions are that clear between them.

Should I extend my description of the filter process to illustrate?

• McLaren - Different size of toy budget than mine.
• Maserati - Italian Aston.
• Jaguar - English Aston.
• BMW - A not-very-tarted-up taxi.
• Corvette - GTR *** GTO without the back seats.
• Nissan - Nintendo Corvette.

I guess the bottom line is you're right. In marketing terms, several of those cars will be competition for a random non-specified "buyer of expensive car". But if we filled a hall (or a forum) with the type of person who wants the aggregate of qualities that Porsche provides, then none of the 'competitors' in market terms survive. The elegant sprightly buyers all left. The guy carrying a sign-board with his latest track time is down the hall playing a video game. The Ferrari owners couldn't be persuaded to leave the garage where their man Cato buffs the exhaust system every Thursday.

For the rest of us, who want everything from the same car... you just knew this was coming... There is No Substitute.

Gary

holminator

Good write up, Gary. The Mercedes comments were very timely as a friend sent me this video, which pretty much verifies your comments about Mercedes. It's in German, but honestly you don't need to know German to get this gist of it.


In 2012-13, there is a reason the Porsche remains the benchmark for all of those manufacturers.

MayorAdamWest

Huh? Did I miss when Aston wasn't English? If anything, the Aston is far more brit than Jag, as Jag is now owned by Tata in India, whereas Aston is owned by several companies, none of which is actually in the UK.

Also, I always saw jag as the baby Aston, but I don't mean that in a bad way.

holminator

If it is from the heart, what's wrong with that? Surely we are not machines. I've driven the M3, for example, and it does not compare to the joy I experience on a twisty mountain road in a rear or rear/mid-engined car. I'd take a Cayman in a heart beat over an M3.



By the way, from 1994 until 2007, Aston Martin was a wholly owned subsidiary of the Ford Motor Company. Maybe its blood is contaminated? Peep the new cup holders. On 12 March 2007, a consortium of investors purchased 90% of Aston Martin for £479 million (not sure who those people are but I bet they live in Hong Kong and Shanghai), with Ford retaining a £40 million stake. On 6 December 2012, the Italian private equity fund Investindustrial signed a deal to buy 37.5% of Aston Martin, investing £150 million as a capital increase. Just sayin'.