To PASM or not to Pasm
#16
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,429
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes
on
15 Posts
[...] Gary's PASM vs non-PASM thoughts were from 2007 in a 997, not a 991.
technovc probably took the easiest (and imo the smartest route): "the car I test drove had pasm and I liked it and I added it on my car"
So, how much of the 991S you love is really the "S" or really the fact that the 991 is inherently much better than the 997 or the 996 or the 993 you were driving previously, especially in terms of driver comfort, since most performance numbers are easily quantifiable.
*#$$#%&&!!
technovc probably took the easiest (and imo the smartest route): "the car I test drove had pasm and I liked it and I added it on my car"
So, how much of the 991S you love is really the "S" or really the fact that the 991 is inherently much better than the 997 or the 996 or the 993 you were driving previously, especially in terms of driver comfort, since most performance numbers are easily quantifiable.
*#$$#%&&!!
Gary
#17
Burning Brakes
I had test drives in base models with 19" wheels/standard suspension, and with 20" wheels/PASM. In short, "real world" day to day driving, I don't think there was much difference. I bought the one with 19"s and no PASM and have not regretted my decision. No track days yet but definitely some "spirited" driving on some curvy roads at both low and higher speeds, and I think it works fine. I might have ordered PASM if I hadn't bought a lot car, but I think the base suspension works fine.
#18
That's an excellent example. And one of their own test scenarios I'm sure. The speed of a computer compared to normal physical processes is difficult for intuition to grasp. The real limiting factor is how quickly the suspension elements can respond to computer commands. I've tested that railroad crossing effect myself and I agree with you. Even in sport-plus mode, the suspension backs off long enough to absorb the shock loads and then reverts to taut control before the car travels even ten feet. We did this on fighter aircraft 35 years ago, so it isn't science fiction anymore but it sure is a pleasure to see the technology applied to such peaceful pursuits.
I did say 'peaceful', not 'mild' didn't I? (He asked while switching to Sports Plus mode with PSE enabled.)
Gary
I did say 'peaceful', not 'mild' didn't I? (He asked while switching to Sports Plus mode with PSE enabled.)
Gary
Wait, so now you're posting while driving? And not goofing off at work like the rest of us? Probably with some hands-free voice-recognition doo-dad and heads-up holo-display too....
#19
Pro
I started with 997.1, and did not like the PASM on it at all, the reaction is always a tad slower, but it is the first generation of PASM. I got 997.2 because I noticed the PASM is much improved, and get rid of the floating feeling. Now I have the 991, and the PASM is improved so much that I can't imagine not having it. It makes the car an excellent daily driver because the suspension is compliant and tight at the same time, and on track the stiff setting is not so aggressive that tires will lose contact with the road over bumps.
My advice: go for PASM.
My advice: go for PASM.
#20
The intent of PASM is to provide the best of both worlds: provide a comfortable drive when used in the normal mode and provide a firm suspension for track use. As to whether or not some one could differentiate between a 991 with and without PASM would depend upon where the car is driven. For example I test drove a 2011 997 with sports suspension and I was surprised how comfortable the ride was, but the roads were in great shape. I expect that the experience would have been far different on roads in need of repair, and unfortunately that is getting to be the norm in many communities.
#22
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
FWIW I have driven the 991 with PASM and 20 inch wheels and another without PASM and 19 inch wheels. The 20 inch wheel car with PASM in normal mode felt about the same as the non PASM car with 19 inch wheels. This makes me think that PASM in normal mode provides a more compliant ride than the regular suspension. FWIW, road noise was higher with the 20 inch wheels which I found annoying. SO when I ordered my new Boxster S for April delivery I went PASM and 19 inch wheels since it will be a 3 season DD. I have my RS for the track. I am not pleased with the trend to larger diameter wheels and stupidly expensive tires to fit them. I wish there was an 18 inch wheel option.
#23
Instructor
Thread Starter
Excellent observations Bob. I too am not sold on the 20" and go between the C2 w/Pasm & 19" or the C2S. I really don't want the road noise that seems to come w/the 20's. I'm currently driving a '02 BMW 530 and love how smooth and quiet it is.
#25
Rennlist Member
Has anyone asked their dealer about the possibility of special-ordering 19" wheels for an S? I, too, have no use for 20" wheels and would never order them intentionally if given a choice.
#26
I think this issue lies at the crux of what we noobes are struggling with when trying to make up our minds between PASM and no PASM, PTV or no PTV, DEM or no DEM cars. Most favorable opinions I have heard about these options come from those going from different flavors of 997 to a 991S.
The opinions that say that the 991 is just fine without these options for a DD are generally from those speaking after short test drives in both or after some time on a track with both instead of long term ownership.
*#$$#%&&!!
The opinions that say that the 991 is just fine without these options for a DD are generally from those speaking after short test drives in both or after some time on a track with both instead of long term ownership.
*#$$#%&&!!
There's a reason why there's so many 1960s-70s 911s runniing around I'd hazard as a %/production units there'll be more of those oldies but goodies running today than 997s/991s still in fighting form in 40 years' time.
To OP, I suspect PASM will be one option I would likely select: (1) my current fun sled has the BMW equivalent, EDC - and I use it, especially the soft setting as the secondary roads around me are crap (2) it's not an expensive option and does offer some handling range.
#27
Instructor
Thread Starter
You're right 917k, at just under $2.1k it's not that much to add PASM to the Base. Helps to create the issue of just going with the S though. By adding PASM the difference between the two models is now only $9k for my build. I get better low end torque (it's noticeable right?) with the S, save almost $3k by leaving off the PSE which I think is not as crucial on the 3.8, and get (it certainly sounds like it) a more fun car to drive as well as being more desireable 10 years down the road when it's time to sell. I may sound as confused as ever but believe me, all of your comments are helping to get this dialed in. I know some of you are tempted to write "JUST GO DRIVE THE F___ING CARS ALREADY" and I'm about to. Just want to be prepared as much as I can so I'm ready to order after the test drives. Plus I have to travel to test drive and I need to find a dealer that has all of the combos I'm considering. Thanks to all. I hope your insights keep coming.
#28
Racer
Dreamer-you bring up a good point to hash; if you have gotten your two choices to within 9K of each other, I would say the S is the way to go because for such a big purchase you are talking about a 10% difference in cost for something you stated you will have for years; so considering with the S you get the engine adding 50 hp, the suspension you want, upgraded exhaust, upgraded brakes, 20" wheels (although I saw you prefer 19)and the PTV.
#29
Instructor
Thread Starter
doc,
I think I'm right there with you. The questions I have are slowly being resolved and I think I'm in the fine tuning phase. Thanks to your great pics I know white is the way to go for me. There doesn't seem to be too much of a difference between the 19" and 20" to get in a twist about so I'd say I'm strongly leaning towards the S with the final determination to be the test drives and what a dealer is willing to discount. Thanks to all for your imput up to this point.
I think I'm right there with you. The questions I have are slowly being resolved and I think I'm in the fine tuning phase. Thanks to your great pics I know white is the way to go for me. There doesn't seem to be too much of a difference between the 19" and 20" to get in a twist about so I'd say I'm strongly leaning towards the S with the final determination to be the test drives and what a dealer is willing to discount. Thanks to all for your imput up to this point.
#30
Dig up Gary Sims post on the 19/20" difference, which he calculates as less than the difference in tread thickness between a new and somewhat worn tire. Keep strongly leaning and don't let the 3/32" (or whatever it is) deter you.