Lindsay Lohan crash tests 991
06-13-2012, 01:44 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Looks like she rear-ended a truck, crumpling the passenger side half way to the windshield. Apparently uninjured.
Useless video, but interesting screenshots of what happens when misplaced confidence ends in failure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...rhm0misE#t=23s
Useless video, but interesting screenshots of what happens when misplaced confidence ends in failure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...rhm0misE#t=23s
Says Johny Gomez (who works near the tow yard), “…I saw a tow truck and some black Porsche, a really nice one and it was a little bit wrecked, like the front part…you could see the hood was half way, like a 90 degree angle. I’m pretty sure even the engine got busted.”
Really? Engine in the front. Where’s the engine located in a 911?
That guy just failed the secret man code question.
06-13-2012, 03:05 PM
#37
Wordsmith
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
@ 27 seconds -
Says Johny Gomez (who works near the tow yard), “…I saw a tow truck and some black Porsche, a really nice one and it was a little bit wrecked, like the front part…you could see the hood was half way, like a 90 degree angle. I’m pretty sure even the engine got busted.”
Really? Engine in the front. Where’s the engine located in a 911?
That guy just failed the secret man code question.
Says Johny Gomez (who works near the tow yard), “…I saw a tow truck and some black Porsche, a really nice one and it was a little bit wrecked, like the front part…you could see the hood was half way, like a 90 degree angle. I’m pretty sure even the engine got busted.”
Really? Engine in the front. Where’s the engine located in a 911?
That guy just failed the secret man code question.
Thinking about the car, it's one of those unpleasant borderline cases -- it's a $100K car with maybe $20K in damage, so almost certainly the insurer will want it repaired, but then, who wants it after that much damage and what's its diminished value once it's half put together and painted in California instead of Germany? So whether it's privately owned or a rental as reported, it gets repaired and the owner disposes of it, so it ends up at a high-line auction through operations like Manheim, then onto the lot of a local Porsche dealer where they know nothing about it and sell it as just another used car. Depending upon how Porsche counts "repaired panels" as two or three (I suspect the bumper is not counted as a panel) this car could be reported as just two panels painted and thus be eligible for CPO.
06-13-2012, 03:40 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
It would be interesting to ask random people on the street where they think the engine is located?
Way more that $20K: (14 crash pics, thanks TMZ)
http://www.tmz.com/photos/2012/06/08...n-crash-01-jpg
Way more that $20K: (14 crash pics, thanks TMZ)
http://www.tmz.com/photos/2012/06/08...n-crash-01-jpg
06-13-2012, 03:58 PM
#40
Wordsmith
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I picked a number that's not too far off. Certainly unless there's a lot more going on underneath, it's not a $50K repair, certainly not a write-off.
So it goes.
Estimating a repair is a funny business. I've been around this side of the business for two decades and literally hundreds of examples -- that's only one busy month for a professional in the trade, but it's such a constrained business, you need only a few dozen examples, when it's always pretty much exactly the same car (in my case a 993, 996 or 997) not a wide range from Toyota to Ferrari and anything in-between.
You can look at how the insurance adjuster and the repairer use a "guided" estimation application (software on a computer) to click their way through all the parts and a repair "book" time for each line item. They also apply rules for likely "hidden" costs and consequential costs (recharging the air-conditioning system, re-aligning the suspension, replacing every seat belt where an air-bag deployed against an occupant, etc.) It all looks remarkably precise and thorough. It is. Sort of.
But what also happens is a skilled and experienced person makes an estimation of the job. They'll put the big pieces in place: repaint a panel $1000, second panel $300, third panel, blend, clear coat ... SUV or sports car with simple paint or metallic will tweak those numbers higher or lower. They'll put a thumbnail on each "corner" ... suspension, cabin trim, air-bags, windshield, etc. And they can be remarkably accurate. Their basic approach is to realize that even the slightest bumper nudge is probably close to $10K for a 911. The cost and risk is there. After that, the real cost "underneath" is relatively small and incremental. Also, things look worst when the car is mangled and dirty. Pull off the frunk lid, the right front quarter panel, remove the bent undertray and the mangled front bumper and you have a car that looks like "no big deal." Once you're "in there" it becomes easier to detect potential "hidden" trouble (put it on a frame aligner and see if the chassis is square) and then you have a very good estimate without all the clicking of software and mouse to add up every bracket and every unit of labor.
Looking at the extra photos just posted here, I'd still say close to $20K. The gray area that could even double that number is what has happened at frame attachment points. If the chassis is sound, life is good. If the energy to mangle the passenger side front suspension was transferred into the chassis, then it becomes wildly expensive or beyond repair if there's a frame member damaged or the integrity of the passenger compartment was compromised in any way. As it looks, I'd say it's no big deal. I'm wrong only about 50% of the time. : )
So it goes.
Estimating a repair is a funny business. I've been around this side of the business for two decades and literally hundreds of examples -- that's only one busy month for a professional in the trade, but it's such a constrained business, you need only a few dozen examples, when it's always pretty much exactly the same car (in my case a 993, 996 or 997) not a wide range from Toyota to Ferrari and anything in-between.
You can look at how the insurance adjuster and the repairer use a "guided" estimation application (software on a computer) to click their way through all the parts and a repair "book" time for each line item. They also apply rules for likely "hidden" costs and consequential costs (recharging the air-conditioning system, re-aligning the suspension, replacing every seat belt where an air-bag deployed against an occupant, etc.) It all looks remarkably precise and thorough. It is. Sort of.
But what also happens is a skilled and experienced person makes an estimation of the job. They'll put the big pieces in place: repaint a panel $1000, second panel $300, third panel, blend, clear coat ... SUV or sports car with simple paint or metallic will tweak those numbers higher or lower. They'll put a thumbnail on each "corner" ... suspension, cabin trim, air-bags, windshield, etc. And they can be remarkably accurate. Their basic approach is to realize that even the slightest bumper nudge is probably close to $10K for a 911. The cost and risk is there. After that, the real cost "underneath" is relatively small and incremental. Also, things look worst when the car is mangled and dirty. Pull off the frunk lid, the right front quarter panel, remove the bent undertray and the mangled front bumper and you have a car that looks like "no big deal." Once you're "in there" it becomes easier to detect potential "hidden" trouble (put it on a frame aligner and see if the chassis is square) and then you have a very good estimate without all the clicking of software and mouse to add up every bracket and every unit of labor.
Looking at the extra photos just posted here, I'd still say close to $20K. The gray area that could even double that number is what has happened at frame attachment points. If the chassis is sound, life is good. If the energy to mangle the passenger side front suspension was transferred into the chassis, then it becomes wildly expensive or beyond repair if there's a frame member damaged or the integrity of the passenger compartment was compromised in any way. As it looks, I'd say it's no big deal. I'm wrong only about 50% of the time. : )
06-13-2012, 04:35 PM
#41
20 k are you kidding me. Airbags alone will cost 5 k to replace. I was stuck in a hailstorm and had 17 k damage. Here you have bumper, front qtr panel, front radiators, right front suspension elements, hood , both light assemblies, foglights, front valence, frunk assembly, sensors as well as repair right door, right rear quarter repair,etc etc etc, even if the frame is straight your way above that number
06-13-2012, 04:50 PM
#42
Nordschleife Master
I picked a number that's not too far off. Certainly unless there's a lot more going on underneath, it's not a $50K repair, certainly not a write-off.
So it goes.
Estimating a repair is a funny business. I've been around this side of the business for two decades and literally hundreds of examples -- that's only one busy month for a professional in the trade, but it's such a constrained business, you need only a few dozen examples, when it's always pretty much exactly the same car (in my case a 993, 996 or 997) not a wide range from Toyota to Ferrari and anything in-between.
You can look at how the insurance adjuster and the repairer use a "guided" estimation application (software on a computer) to click their way through all the parts and a repair "book" time for each line item. They also apply rules for likely "hidden" costs and consequential costs (recharging the air-conditioning system, re-aligning the suspension, replacing every seat belt where an air-bag deployed against an occupant, etc.) It all looks remarkably precise and thorough. It is. Sort of.
But what also happens is a skilled and experienced person makes an estimation of the job. They'll put the big pieces in place: repaint a panel $1000, second panel $300, third panel, blend, clear coat ... SUV or sports car with simple paint or metallic will tweak those numbers higher or lower. They'll put a thumbnail on each "corner" ... suspension, cabin trim, air-bags, windshield, etc. And they can be remarkably accurate. Their basic approach is to realize that even the slightest bumper nudge is probably close to $10K for a 911. The cost and risk is there. After that, the real cost "underneath" is relatively small and incremental. Also, things look worst when the car is mangled and dirty. Pull off the frunk lid, the right front quarter panel, remove the bent undertray and the mangled front bumper and you have a car that looks like "no big deal." Once you're "in there" it becomes easier to detect potential "hidden" trouble (put it on a frame aligner and see if the chassis is square) and then you have a very good estimate without all the clicking of software and mouse to add up every bracket and every unit of labor.
Looking at the extra photos just posted here, I'd still say close to $20K. The gray area that could even double that number is what has happened at frame attachment points. If the chassis is sound, life is good. If the energy to mangle the passenger side front suspension was transferred into the chassis, then it becomes wildly expensive or beyond repair if there's a frame member damaged or the integrity of the passenger compartment was compromised in any way. As it looks, I'd say it's no big deal. I'm wrong only about 50% of the time. : )
So it goes.
Estimating a repair is a funny business. I've been around this side of the business for two decades and literally hundreds of examples -- that's only one busy month for a professional in the trade, but it's such a constrained business, you need only a few dozen examples, when it's always pretty much exactly the same car (in my case a 993, 996 or 997) not a wide range from Toyota to Ferrari and anything in-between.
You can look at how the insurance adjuster and the repairer use a "guided" estimation application (software on a computer) to click their way through all the parts and a repair "book" time for each line item. They also apply rules for likely "hidden" costs and consequential costs (recharging the air-conditioning system, re-aligning the suspension, replacing every seat belt where an air-bag deployed against an occupant, etc.) It all looks remarkably precise and thorough. It is. Sort of.
But what also happens is a skilled and experienced person makes an estimation of the job. They'll put the big pieces in place: repaint a panel $1000, second panel $300, third panel, blend, clear coat ... SUV or sports car with simple paint or metallic will tweak those numbers higher or lower. They'll put a thumbnail on each "corner" ... suspension, cabin trim, air-bags, windshield, etc. And they can be remarkably accurate. Their basic approach is to realize that even the slightest bumper nudge is probably close to $10K for a 911. The cost and risk is there. After that, the real cost "underneath" is relatively small and incremental. Also, things look worst when the car is mangled and dirty. Pull off the frunk lid, the right front quarter panel, remove the bent undertray and the mangled front bumper and you have a car that looks like "no big deal." Once you're "in there" it becomes easier to detect potential "hidden" trouble (put it on a frame aligner and see if the chassis is square) and then you have a very good estimate without all the clicking of software and mouse to add up every bracket and every unit of labor.
Looking at the extra photos just posted here, I'd still say close to $20K. The gray area that could even double that number is what has happened at frame attachment points. If the chassis is sound, life is good. If the energy to mangle the passenger side front suspension was transferred into the chassis, then it becomes wildly expensive or beyond repair if there's a frame member damaged or the integrity of the passenger compartment was compromised in any way. As it looks, I'd say it's no big deal. I'm wrong only about 50% of the time. : )
I've seen 100K plus cars with way less damage being declared TOTAL DAMAGE. For example,recently a CL 63 AMG(this car can get close to 200K with options when new) was totaled because it hit the freeway divider and then bounced into another car on the other side. It needed left and right doors and some repairs on the rear quarter panels plus painting.
It's all business for the insurer...why deal with some body shop and hidden repair costs along the way,plus most likely the body shop will recommend painting the whole car and it will never come out as good as factory no matter how good they are.
I know in theory that an Insurance company declares total damage and pays the owner book value when the repair costs are more than the actual car,but this statement turned out not entirely true many times.
06-13-2012, 05:07 PM
#43
Wordsmith
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
20 k are you kidding me. Airbags alone will cost 5 k to replace. I was stuck in a hailstorm and had 17 k damage. Here you have bumper, front qtr panel, front radiators, right front suspension elements, hood , both light assemblies, foglights, front valence, frunk assembly, sensors as well as repair right door, right rear quarter repair,etc etc etc, even if the frame is straight your way above that number
I don't see damage to the passenger door, but I've not exactly gone over those fuzzy pics with a magnifier and again, it's just idle curiosity to see one of the first 991's with its skirts down. The driver side headlight appears to be okay.
Again, the big variable is the front pan and how it's repaired -- if it's all parts and no "in the metal" work, it's cheap. If there's anything torn at an attachment point, it gets ugly.
It does take a few experiences to get a handle on how these repairs unfold, but it's also important to challenge any repair estimate that aims an arrow at the sky. Unscrupulous body shops will see a sucker 911 owner a mile away. The practical reality is that the cost to repair a Honda can be greater than the cost to do the same work on a Porsche -- imagine if this was a front-engine, front-drive hybrid. $25K for the battery pack before you start quibbling over $10K in drive train and wheels and carriers, $10K in labor to basically rebuild the front of a $40K car and only to find out the whole car is never square on the jig, so they "pull" it on a frame-a-liner and it will never be the same, the customer ends up with a rolling lemon and nobody wins.
Conversely, this car could go back together with a fender, bumper cover and hood -- paint and blend into the existing quarter and the door. Call it $10K. The driver bag is more expensive but it's a single unit. The passenger SRS is more complex but cheaper though it tends to damage trim pieces and in many cars it hits the windshield so hard it breaks and there's another $2K. Call it $10K to tidy up the cabin and wander around finding things that were "involved" like laws that mandate replacing the seatbelt of any occupied seat, replacing damaged floor mats due to towing or broken glass, or unseen problems like a door mirror which failed when the internal motor assembly didn't like the deceleration forces or the damage to the rear wheels where the tow truck company wrenched the car down with road grime under the tow straps, etc.
The insurer will be more concerned about the celeb and entourage having recurring aches and pains or needing therapy sessions to deal with the emotional stress, etc. In LA LA land, I imagine it's all too common. Then the passenger sues the driver, then the insurer sues the truck driver for faulty tail lights or being on a trucks limited access route or carrying too much load or any excuse to share fault.
Anyway, it's interesting to think through the repair work, but I wouldn't want to do it and I absolutely would not take this car back, I'd compel the insurer to write it off or buy it off me and get me into a new replacement. This is where, on a rainy night, the tow operator will offer to "make sure of it" so you don't have to worry about the car not being a write-off. : )
06-13-2012, 08:29 PM
#45
Wordsmith
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I think it could be a track car build.
Hopefully the steering is cactus -- I'd try to put a 997 rack in there with an electric-hydraulic pump out of a Cup, pull off the other front fender and put on 997 RSR front panels, hang a wing on the back, disable all the electronic systems, spherical joint suspension rebuild, lsd, strip the cabin, cut out the sunroof, weld in a cage ... tweak the engine for 450hp ... bingo -- 2800lb "drive to the track" car.
Hopefully the steering is cactus -- I'd try to put a 997 rack in there with an electric-hydraulic pump out of a Cup, pull off the other front fender and put on 997 RSR front panels, hang a wing on the back, disable all the electronic systems, spherical joint suspension rebuild, lsd, strip the cabin, cut out the sunroof, weld in a cage ... tweak the engine for 450hp ... bingo -- 2800lb "drive to the track" car.