PCCB
06-06-2012, 05:45 AM
#1
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PCCB
I have specced PCCB brakes for 991 C2S. However reading forums and articles I am a bit confused as some say they are rubbish that lasts marginally longer than cast iron if you track them, and some say they are fantastic option which lasts a lot longer and improves braking performance a lot. Put the weight advantage aside as it is quite obvious, could somebody share opinions on PCCB car ownership experience? Pros and cons? My car will be used as a daily driver and I will track it 5-10 times per year.
Thanks.
Thanks.
06-06-2012, 07:27 AM
#2
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For the track they are GREAT! You will see very little if any fade. For everyday use, I would not want them. They work best when hot. In the rain, or snow they really don't get hot enough to work as well as the standard brakes. When it comes time to replace them and if you track your car you will need to the replacement cost is prohibitive.
06-06-2012, 08:24 AM
#3
I have them. You can add no brake dust to the list of advantages. You will see much longer life. I know this is not a reason to get them but I have them on my basalt car and the yellow looks amazing.
06-06-2012, 09:31 AM
#4
Race Director
For the track they are GREAT! You will see very little if any fade. For everyday use, I would not want them. They work best when hot. In the rain, or snow they really don't get hot enough to work as well as the standard brakes. When it comes time to replace them and if you track your car you will need to the replacement cost is prohibitive.
06-06-2012, 09:48 AM
#5
Can someone explain why the pads for these carbon-ceramic disks don't generate black dust? Are they simply using a "dustless" pad?
06-06-2012, 11:06 AM
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I have had several 911's with and several without. I have also had Ferraris both ways. They are a luxury well worth the price. I have them on my current 991 and would order them again. The modulation is more precise. The pedal feel is lighter and more controllable. They look better, get more compliments and questions since they are bigger, noticeably so. My last 997.2 did not have them and that's one reason I never considered it a "keeper."
As far as the above opinion that they don't work well cold: that is probably a person that has never had them since it is ridiculous. They always work better than the red brakes, always.
They are expensive, but it is an expensive car to begin with. And, they are now standard on Ferraris. Thank goodness! My 2004 Challenge Stradale had them and when my 2006 F430 didn't, I felt I had moved backward on the trade. It took some getting used to having to brake harder for the same effect.
Because of the reduced weight (unsprung weight at that), the car handles washboard roads better, tracking truer and riding better than the iron brakes. I know this because I have a test route I use for my appreciation ride. I had three 997's with and one without. This test route would convince any person, driver or passenger of the superior ride and handling due to the reduction in unsprung weight.
The only reason not to get them, yes, the only reason is expense. Everything else is sour grapes and justification. Period. They are superior in every way. Some of the criticism is outdated. They are in their fourth generation of improvement and none of the original "nitpicking" still applies (except on internet "expert" opinions).
Go for it if you can afford it—you won't regret it.
As far as the above opinion that they don't work well cold: that is probably a person that has never had them since it is ridiculous. They always work better than the red brakes, always.
They are expensive, but it is an expensive car to begin with. And, they are now standard on Ferraris. Thank goodness! My 2004 Challenge Stradale had them and when my 2006 F430 didn't, I felt I had moved backward on the trade. It took some getting used to having to brake harder for the same effect.
Because of the reduced weight (unsprung weight at that), the car handles washboard roads better, tracking truer and riding better than the iron brakes. I know this because I have a test route I use for my appreciation ride. I had three 997's with and one without. This test route would convince any person, driver or passenger of the superior ride and handling due to the reduction in unsprung weight.
The only reason not to get them, yes, the only reason is expense. Everything else is sour grapes and justification. Period. They are superior in every way. Some of the criticism is outdated. They are in their fourth generation of improvement and none of the original "nitpicking" still applies (except on internet "expert" opinions).
Go for it if you can afford it—you won't regret it.
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06-06-2012, 11:42 AM
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I have had several 911's with and several without. I have also had Ferraris both ways. They are a luxury well worth the price. I have them on my current 991 and would order them again. The modulation is more precise. The pedal feel is lighter and more controllable. They look better, get more compliments and questions since they are bigger, noticeably so. My last 997.2 did not have them and that's one reason I never considered it a "keeper."
As far as the above opinion that they don't work well cold: that is probably a person that has never had them since it is ridiculous. They always work better than the red brakes, always.
They are expensive, but it is an expensive car to begin with. And, they are now standard on Ferraris. Thank goodness! My 2004 Challenge Stradale had them and when my 2006 F430 didn't, I felt I had moved backward on the trade. It took some getting used to having to brake harder for the same effect.
Because of the reduced weight (unsprung weight at that), the car handles washboard roads better, tracking truer and riding better than the iron brakes. I know this because I have a test route I use for my appreciation ride. I had three 997's with and one without. This test route would convince any person, driver or passenger of the superior ride and handling due to the reduction in unsprung weight.
The only reason not to get them, yes, the only reason is expense. Everything else is sour grapes and justification. Period. They are superior in every way. Some of the criticism is outdated. They are in their fourth generation of improvement and none of the original "nitpicking" still applies (except on internet "expert" opinions).
Go for it if you can afford it—you won't regret it.
As far as the above opinion that they don't work well cold: that is probably a person that has never had them since it is ridiculous. They always work better than the red brakes, always.
They are expensive, but it is an expensive car to begin with. And, they are now standard on Ferraris. Thank goodness! My 2004 Challenge Stradale had them and when my 2006 F430 didn't, I felt I had moved backward on the trade. It took some getting used to having to brake harder for the same effect.
Because of the reduced weight (unsprung weight at that), the car handles washboard roads better, tracking truer and riding better than the iron brakes. I know this because I have a test route I use for my appreciation ride. I had three 997's with and one without. This test route would convince any person, driver or passenger of the superior ride and handling due to the reduction in unsprung weight.
The only reason not to get them, yes, the only reason is expense. Everything else is sour grapes and justification. Period. They are superior in every way. Some of the criticism is outdated. They are in their fourth generation of improvement and none of the original "nitpicking" still applies (except on internet "expert" opinions).
Go for it if you can afford it—you won't regret it.
06-06-2012, 10:36 PM
#10
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I would say if you track your car seriously they are probably worth it.
For street use only it is hard to justify the cost for any practical reason. In that case they are just a status symbol.
For street use only it is hard to justify the cost for any practical reason. In that case they are just a status symbol.
06-07-2012, 07:09 AM
#11
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...flip side of that is most GT3 owners serious about the track do not opt for PCCBs, or if they do, switch the rotors for cast iron.
Bottom line is that PCCBs are not the be all, end all, price no object, superior in every way brake option. They are a personal preference; some like the feel, and some don't. Tires are the primary factor in stopping distances, not brakes. PCCBs resist fade, but 911 brakes are hardly prone to fade; the 991 should be even less so given its (marginally) lighter weight and larger standard brakes.
And it could be argued that with electric steering on the 991, any difference in feel due to less unsprung weight is either programmed, or a placebo effect.
Bottom line is that PCCBs are not the be all, end all, price no object, superior in every way brake option. They are a personal preference; some like the feel, and some don't. Tires are the primary factor in stopping distances, not brakes. PCCBs resist fade, but 911 brakes are hardly prone to fade; the 991 should be even less so given its (marginally) lighter weight and larger standard brakes.
And it could be argued that with electric steering on the 991, any difference in feel due to less unsprung weight is either programmed, or a placebo effect.
06-07-2012, 08:32 AM
#12
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I have had several 911's with and several without. I have also had Ferraris both ways. They are a luxury well worth the price. I have them on my current 991 and would order them again. The modulation is more precise. The pedal feel is lighter and more controllable. They look better, get more compliments and questions since they are bigger, noticeably so. My last 997.2 did not have them and that's one reason I never considered it a "keeper."
As far as the above opinion that they don't work well cold: that is probably a person that has never had them since it is ridiculous. They always work better than the red brakes, always.
They are expensive, but it is an expensive car to begin with. And, they are now standard on Ferraris. Thank goodness! My 2004 Challenge Stradale had them and when my 2006 F430 didn't, I felt I had moved backward on the trade. It took some getting used to having to brake harder for the same effect.
Because of the reduced weight (unsprung weight at that), the car handles washboard roads better, tracking truer and riding better than the iron brakes. I know this because I have a test route I use for my appreciation ride. I had three 997's with and one without. This test route would convince any person, driver or passenger of the superior ride and handling due to the reduction in unsprung weight.
The only reason not to get them, yes, the only reason is expense. Everything else is sour grapes and justification. Period. They are superior in every way. Some of the criticism is outdated. They are in their fourth generation of improvement and none of the original "nitpicking" still applies (except on internet "expert" opinions).
Go for it if you can afford it—you won't regret it.
As far as the above opinion that they don't work well cold: that is probably a person that has never had them since it is ridiculous. They always work better than the red brakes, always.
They are expensive, but it is an expensive car to begin with. And, they are now standard on Ferraris. Thank goodness! My 2004 Challenge Stradale had them and when my 2006 F430 didn't, I felt I had moved backward on the trade. It took some getting used to having to brake harder for the same effect.
Because of the reduced weight (unsprung weight at that), the car handles washboard roads better, tracking truer and riding better than the iron brakes. I know this because I have a test route I use for my appreciation ride. I had three 997's with and one without. This test route would convince any person, driver or passenger of the superior ride and handling due to the reduction in unsprung weight.
The only reason not to get them, yes, the only reason is expense. Everything else is sour grapes and justification. Period. They are superior in every way. Some of the criticism is outdated. They are in their fourth generation of improvement and none of the original "nitpicking" still applies (except on internet "expert" opinions).
Go for it if you can afford it—you won't regret it.
06-07-2012, 08:57 AM
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...flip side of that is most GT3 owners serious about the track do not opt for PCCBs, or if they do, switch the rotors for cast iron.
Bottom line is that PCCBs are not the be all, end all, price no object, superior in every way brake option. They are a personal preference; some like the feel, and some don't. Tires are the primary factor in stopping distances, not brakes. PCCBs resist fade, but 911 brakes are hardly prone to fade; the 991 should be even less so given its (marginally) lighter weight and larger standard brakes.
And it could be argued that with electric steering on the 991, any difference in feel due to less unsprung weight is either programmed, or a placebo effect.
Bottom line is that PCCBs are not the be all, end all, price no object, superior in every way brake option. They are a personal preference; some like the feel, and some don't. Tires are the primary factor in stopping distances, not brakes. PCCBs resist fade, but 911 brakes are hardly prone to fade; the 991 should be even less so given its (marginally) lighter weight and larger standard brakes.
And it could be argued that with electric steering on the 991, any difference in feel due to less unsprung weight is either programmed, or a placebo effect.
Unsprung mass reduction can be perceived not only via steering. There are number of advantages including better stability while cornering on uneven surfaces, due to lower inertia of the wheel, what you might appreciate say on the nordschleife. But I have mentioned that weight advantage is obvious. What I want to find out is whether there might be any nasty surprises in future.
06-07-2012, 10:31 AM
#15
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To add to paver's comment, for track use cast iron is not only cheaper, but also less fragile, has more pad options, are less sensitive/easier to modulate, and no less prone to fade on track with proper fluid (and technique).