991 v 997 FWIW
05-19-2012, 06:51 PM
#1
991 v 997 FWIW
I've just traded my 2012 991 for a 2012 997 and thought others might be interested in the reasons.
I'll start by admitting that the 991 is a better car (where 'better' is of course subjective) if you:
1. want to use it as a daily driver. It feels bigger, more planted, the squirley steering feel at speed is gone, and let's face it, it's a modern car with modern amenitiies. Ventilated sport seats -- what a concept. Auto headlamps. Ditto. And the fit and finish is just better.
2. care about track times. The 991 C2S is faster, lacking the pucker factor in the hard turns. There is less body flex in the coupe. This car inspires confidence. I bet the 991 GT3 is going to be outstanding.
3. are tall. I'm not, but I can see that for taller drivers the 991 has better ergonomics.
Now there are some niggles with the 991. The PDK throttle blip on downshifts is cool at first, but it can wear on you. Overall the car has a much more muscular look that I like but the backend visually -- to me -- is too Aston like and I do not like Astons, I prefer the rounded-off Porsche tail. Lip not required.
But these are not the reasons I trade back to the 997 of which I have owned several.
What if you have another car to drive daily and what if you don't track your car? What if you only have an hour or so a week to get into a great sports car and toss it around a bit? What if the squirley steering and the pucker factor associated with the classic 991 are what you look forward to?
When I got back into the 997, I smiled all the way home. For me and my use, this is the better car.
I'll start by admitting that the 991 is a better car (where 'better' is of course subjective) if you:
1. want to use it as a daily driver. It feels bigger, more planted, the squirley steering feel at speed is gone, and let's face it, it's a modern car with modern amenitiies. Ventilated sport seats -- what a concept. Auto headlamps. Ditto. And the fit and finish is just better.
2. care about track times. The 991 C2S is faster, lacking the pucker factor in the hard turns. There is less body flex in the coupe. This car inspires confidence. I bet the 991 GT3 is going to be outstanding.
3. are tall. I'm not, but I can see that for taller drivers the 991 has better ergonomics.
Now there are some niggles with the 991. The PDK throttle blip on downshifts is cool at first, but it can wear on you. Overall the car has a much more muscular look that I like but the backend visually -- to me -- is too Aston like and I do not like Astons, I prefer the rounded-off Porsche tail. Lip not required.
But these are not the reasons I trade back to the 997 of which I have owned several.
What if you have another car to drive daily and what if you don't track your car? What if you only have an hour or so a week to get into a great sports car and toss it around a bit? What if the squirley steering and the pucker factor associated with the classic 991 are what you look forward to?
When I got back into the 997, I smiled all the way home. For me and my use, this is the better car.
05-19-2012, 09:13 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
how long have you had the 991? is the 997 PDK or manual? if manual, then I can totally understand your feeling. Definitely an interesting move, but I'm glad you're happy.
05-19-2012, 09:14 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Wow. Cool perspective, thanks.
05-19-2012, 11:15 PM
#5
OK. Brave move. I gotta hand it to you, you would have to be sitting in an extreme minority to do something like that. I mean changing out a 991 PDK for a 997 PDK as a weekend toy, or the car for the odd drive with a thrill? I could (maybe) understand if the 997 was a manual, or more so if it was a GT3 or Turbo. But a 997 PDK?
Don't mean to be rude here but something tells me there is whole lot more to this story than you are letting on.
Don't mean to be rude here but something tells me there is whole lot more to this story than you are letting on.
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05-20-2012, 01:53 AM
#8
05-20-2012, 05:16 AM
#9
Sounds alike a GT3, as in your avatar, would have served you better than a Carrera for occasional fun on the roads at safe and sane limits. Then again, if PDK was necessarily part of the equation, presumably the car also has to work for a living in terms of tedious commutes, etc.
I agree the Aston rump is just plain wrong on a Porsche. If it were an Internet photoshop guess, it would be laughed off the page, but there it is. Oh well. Personally, I like the 997.1 treatment and loathe the concession to fashion (and weight) over function. The 991 is too tall and vertical in the rear, I prefer the familiar width of the wide body 997 rear. Side by side, white 991S vs 997RS, no contest.
As for PDK blip downshifts, it simply never happens unless driven hard, the rest of the time, the downshifts are a blurred Tiptronic feel, but neither here nor there. If anything, I dislike the "automatic" sound track and tend to deliberately hold the engine in 1st and 2nd rather than hear it make five upshifts before I cross the intersection. I consider this to be healthier for a new engine and a tad less emasculating...
As for 997 PDK vs 991 PDK, it's a photo finish, race after race. Having had both, I'm not yet able to call one or the other as the favorite, at least until the 991 steering is fixed. On one course, the 991 has it by a nose for performance and functionality on road or track, on another, the 997 has it for feel and feedback. The 991 for "newest model cachet" fwiw, and the 997 for massive discount price advantage. In the 997 GTS, it might even have it for useable power and torque, if not PDK-assisted launches.
Rant:
I agree the Aston rump is just plain wrong on a Porsche. If it were an Internet photoshop guess, it would be laughed off the page, but there it is. Oh well. Personally, I like the 997.1 treatment and loathe the concession to fashion (and weight) over function. The 991 is too tall and vertical in the rear, I prefer the familiar width of the wide body 997 rear. Side by side, white 991S vs 997RS, no contest.
As for PDK blip downshifts, it simply never happens unless driven hard, the rest of the time, the downshifts are a blurred Tiptronic feel, but neither here nor there. If anything, I dislike the "automatic" sound track and tend to deliberately hold the engine in 1st and 2nd rather than hear it make five upshifts before I cross the intersection. I consider this to be healthier for a new engine and a tad less emasculating...
As for 997 PDK vs 991 PDK, it's a photo finish, race after race. Having had both, I'm not yet able to call one or the other as the favorite, at least until the 991 steering is fixed. On one course, the 991 has it by a nose for performance and functionality on road or track, on another, the 997 has it for feel and feedback. The 991 for "newest model cachet" fwiw, and the 997 for massive discount price advantage. In the 997 GTS, it might even have it for useable power and torque, if not PDK-assisted launches.
Rant:
I'm going around this Mulberry bush a few more times until I see the 991 C4S Targa. Whatever I get next, I just need to figure out if I really enjoy having PDCC and PTV. If those two acronyms are straws too many on this camel's back, I think the 991 could even lose its place in the garage to a two door Panamera, or as others have noted, for two-up driving where the rear jump seats no longer accommodate my children all that well anyway, there's the wide open market of daily driver competitors, foremost being Boxster and Cayman if only they'd put a bloody engine in the things. 315 hp in 2012? Seriously? What a dickless move. Surely once you have to nobble one product by such a degree to keep it "below" another product, you've exposed the truth and there's no hiding it. Sheesh. Does Porsche take 911 drivers to be such pants-wetting nancy boys? Can't it be that a Boxster S has 400 or 420 hp and so does a Carrera S or GTS? Does it really end the brand distinction and the half century heritage of the 911 if the Boxster has an engine? Hell, the Panamera is quicker than the 991, even Cayenne is only a tenth slower ... seriously, where's the justification in another ten years of the Boxster being held back? How about a lightweight Boxster Turbo at 550hp in 2WD and drop the charade -- or would that make all the expensive mid-engine jalopies like the 918 look just a little too ridiculous? I don't see anything can be done to avoid that destiny.
05-20-2012, 08:07 AM
#10
Sounds alike a GT3, as in your avatar, would have served you better than a Carrera for occasional fun on the roads at safe and sane limits. Then again, if PDK was necessarily part of the equation, presumably the car also has to work for a living in terms of tedious commutes, etc.
I agree the Aston rump is just plain wrong on a Porsche. If it were an Internet photoshop guess, it would be laughed off the page, but there it is. Oh well. Personally, I like the 997.1 treatment and loathe the concession to fashion (and weight) over function. The 991 is too tall and vertical in the rear, I prefer the familiar width of the wide body 997 rear. Side by side, white 991S vs 997RS, no contest.
As for PDK blip downshifts, it simply never happens unless driven hard, the rest of the time, the downshifts are a blurred Tiptronic feel, but neither here nor there. If anything, I dislike the "automatic" sound track and tend to deliberately hold the engine in 1st and 2nd rather than hear it make five upshifts before I cross the intersection. I consider this to be healthier for a new engine and a tad less emasculating...
As for 997 PDK vs 991 PDK, it's a photo finish, race after race. Having had both, I'm not yet able to call one or the other as the favorite, at least until the 991 steering is fixed. On one course, the 991 has it by a nose for performance and functionality on road or track, on another, the 997 has it for feel and feedback. The 991 for "newest model cachet" fwiw, and the 997 for massive discount price advantage. In the 997 GTS, it might even have it for useable power and torque, if not PDK-assisted launches.
Rant:
I agree the Aston rump is just plain wrong on a Porsche. If it were an Internet photoshop guess, it would be laughed off the page, but there it is. Oh well. Personally, I like the 997.1 treatment and loathe the concession to fashion (and weight) over function. The 991 is too tall and vertical in the rear, I prefer the familiar width of the wide body 997 rear. Side by side, white 991S vs 997RS, no contest.
As for PDK blip downshifts, it simply never happens unless driven hard, the rest of the time, the downshifts are a blurred Tiptronic feel, but neither here nor there. If anything, I dislike the "automatic" sound track and tend to deliberately hold the engine in 1st and 2nd rather than hear it make five upshifts before I cross the intersection. I consider this to be healthier for a new engine and a tad less emasculating...
As for 997 PDK vs 991 PDK, it's a photo finish, race after race. Having had both, I'm not yet able to call one or the other as the favorite, at least until the 991 steering is fixed. On one course, the 991 has it by a nose for performance and functionality on road or track, on another, the 997 has it for feel and feedback. The 991 for "newest model cachet" fwiw, and the 997 for massive discount price advantage. In the 997 GTS, it might even have it for useable power and torque, if not PDK-assisted launches.
Rant:
I'm going around this Mulberry bush a few more times until I see the 991 C4S Targa. Whatever I get next, I just need to figure out if I really enjoy having PDCC and PTV. If those two acronyms are straws too many on this camel's back, I think the 991 could even lose its place in the garage to a two door Panamera, or as others have noted, for two-up driving where the rear jump seats no longer accommodate my children all that well anyway, there's the wide open market of daily driver competitors, foremost being Boxster and Cayman if only they'd put a bloody engine in the things. 315 hp in 2012? Seriously? What a dickless move. Surely once you have to nobble one product by such a degree to keep it "below" another product, you've exposed the truth and there's no hiding it. Sheesh. Does Porsche take 911 drivers to be such pants-wetting nancy boys? Can't it be that a Boxster S has 400 or 420 hp and so does a Carrera S or GTS? Does it really end the brand distinction and the half century heritage of the 911 if the Boxster has an engine? Hell, the Panamera is quicker than the 991, even Cayenne is only a tenth slower ... seriously, where's the justification in another ten years of the Boxster being held back? How about a lightweight Boxster Turbo at 550hp in 2WD and drop the charade -- or would that make all the expensive mid-engine jalopies like the 918 look just a little too ridiculous? I don't see anything can be done to avoid that destiny.
05-20-2012, 08:07 AM
#11
Sounds alike a GT3, as in your avatar, would have served you better than a Carrera for occasional fun on the roads at safe and sane limits. Then again, if PDK was necessarily part of the equation, presumably the car also has to work for a living in terms of tedious commutes, etc.
I agree the Aston rump is just plain wrong on a Porsche. If it were an Internet photoshop guess, it would be laughed off the page, but there it is. Oh well. Personally, I like the 997.1 treatment and loathe the concession to fashion (and weight) over function. The 991 is too tall and vertical in the rear, I prefer the familiar width of the wide body 997 rear. Side by side, white 991S vs 997RS, no contest.
As for PDK blip downshifts, it simply never happens unless driven hard, the rest of the time, the downshifts are a blurred Tiptronic feel, but neither here nor there. If anything, I dislike the "automatic" sound track and tend to deliberately hold the engine in 1st and 2nd rather than hear it make five upshifts before I cross the intersection. I consider this to be healthier for a new engine and a tad less emasculating...
As for 997 PDK vs 991 PDK, it's a photo finish, race after race. Having had both, I'm not yet able to call one or the other as the favorite, at least until the 991 steering is fixed. On one course, the 991 has it by a nose for performance and functionality on road or track, on another, the 997 has it for feel and feedback. The 991 for "newest model cachet" fwiw, and the 997 for massive discount price advantage. In the 997 GTS, it might even have it for useable power and torque, if not PDK-assisted launches.
Rant:
I agree the Aston rump is just plain wrong on a Porsche. If it were an Internet photoshop guess, it would be laughed off the page, but there it is. Oh well. Personally, I like the 997.1 treatment and loathe the concession to fashion (and weight) over function. The 991 is too tall and vertical in the rear, I prefer the familiar width of the wide body 997 rear. Side by side, white 991S vs 997RS, no contest.
As for PDK blip downshifts, it simply never happens unless driven hard, the rest of the time, the downshifts are a blurred Tiptronic feel, but neither here nor there. If anything, I dislike the "automatic" sound track and tend to deliberately hold the engine in 1st and 2nd rather than hear it make five upshifts before I cross the intersection. I consider this to be healthier for a new engine and a tad less emasculating...
As for 997 PDK vs 991 PDK, it's a photo finish, race after race. Having had both, I'm not yet able to call one or the other as the favorite, at least until the 991 steering is fixed. On one course, the 991 has it by a nose for performance and functionality on road or track, on another, the 997 has it for feel and feedback. The 991 for "newest model cachet" fwiw, and the 997 for massive discount price advantage. In the 997 GTS, it might even have it for useable power and torque, if not PDK-assisted launches.
Rant:
I'm going around this Mulberry bush a few more times until I see the 991 C4S Targa. Whatever I get next, I just need to figure out if I really enjoy having PDCC and PTV. If those two acronyms are straws too many on this camel's back, I think the 991 could even lose its place in the garage to a two door Panamera, or as others have noted, for two-up driving where the rear jump seats no longer accommodate my children all that well anyway, there's the wide open market of daily driver competitors, foremost being Boxster and Cayman if only they'd put a bloody engine in the things. 315 hp in 2012? Seriously? What a dickless move. Surely once you have to nobble one product by such a degree to keep it "below" another product, you've exposed the truth and there's no hiding it. Sheesh. Does Porsche take 911 drivers to be such pants-wetting nancy boys? Can't it be that a Boxster S has 400 or 420 hp and so does a Carrera S or GTS? Does it really end the brand distinction and the half century heritage of the 911 if the Boxster has an engine? Hell, the Panamera is quicker than the 991, even Cayenne is only a tenth slower ... seriously, where's the justification in another ten years of the Boxster being held back? How about a lightweight Boxster Turbo at 550hp in 2WD and drop the charade -- or would that make all the expensive mid-engine jalopies like the 918 look just a little too ridiculous? I don't see anything can be done to avoid that destiny.
911's engine is on the move...forward, as it inevitably has to go....so the Boxster and Caymans can receive the appropriate engine/power to compete with the Audi TT's, Subarus etc. The die hard 911 purists that love all the nose bobbing and slip sliding around will remain useful as traction against the newer cars on the circuit up till a point. The newer 911 cars will still provide all the necessary sensations, but at higher cornering speeds. I can see that in the future, to make it safe on the track the new 991's (and 992's) will need to run in a separate group to the 997/996 cars....for safety reasons.
Btw, nice post.
05-20-2012, 11:46 PM
#14
In this particular case utility and economies must certainly hold priority over thrill/fun factor....
If thrill factor was involved, a used 996 or 997.1/2 GT3, or even 997tt, would have still surely seen change in the pocket after ditching out of a new PDK 991?
Only OP can give the real reasons.....seems logical there is more to this story..
If thrill factor was involved, a used 996 or 997.1/2 GT3, or even 997tt, would have still surely seen change in the pocket after ditching out of a new PDK 991?
Only OP can give the real reasons.....seems logical there is more to this story..
05-21-2012, 12:11 AM
#15
Drifting
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Worst case it probably cost him a cople of grand to figure out he didn't like the car. Sounds like he can afford it as many 997s as he's had.
Bought a fishing boat last year I decided i didnt like. Sold it for 1000 less than i paid and bought something else. Not rocket science. Utility.
Bought a fishing boat last year I decided i didnt like. Sold it for 1000 less than i paid and bought something else. Not rocket science. Utility.