It's starting to happen -- the 997 looking old(er)
05-21-2012, 01:53 PM
#46
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Meh. They all look like squished Beetles to me...
05-21-2012, 05:37 PM
#47
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I'm okay with wings as long as they are functional and serve a purpose. It could be legitimately argued that the GT3 wing is part of the reason it is stickier on the track.
I very much like the look of the 997GT3. I could do without the graphics. The wing is integrated nicely and that gives it a little edge over the wing on the C63 Black which does look a little like an afterthought. It's still a great looking car though.
I was parked next to a Gallardo Superlegerra this past week, and its wing looked a little after market as well. I hope that's not a new trend.
I very much like the look of the 997GT3. I could do without the graphics. The wing is integrated nicely and that gives it a little edge over the wing on the C63 Black which does look a little like an afterthought. It's still a great looking car though.
I was parked next to a Gallardo Superlegerra this past week, and its wing looked a little after market as well. I hope that's not a new trend.
The Mercedes (and BMW for that matter) can go wingless and still look awesome (probably better in fact). I don't think that applies to the 911, they look better with wings, by far, but therein lies the dilemma.
The 911 visually is an acquired taste, and though I do have a taste for it, I realize it's limitations in that area. Porsche needs more in that area to compete looks wise than a enormous wing that looks silly on the street and a bunch of stickers, that well........ still look silly on the street.
05-21-2012, 08:23 PM
#48
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The 911 visually is an acquired taste, and though I do have a taste for it, I realize it's limitations in that area. Porsche needs more in that area to compete looks wise than a enormous wing that looks silly on the street and a bunch of stickers, that well........ still look silly on the street.
911 has basically the same shape for the last 40+ years. Its shape is timeless and buyers keep coming back. There are plenty of buyers that are shopping for 10, 20 or 30 years old Porsche 911, but can't say the same to any other car makers and their models.
New Porsche 911 is always the default sport car that others try to compare (and catch up) with any road tests. Never heard the same in any Mercedes.
The big wing of the GT3/RS is for extra downforce during high speed track driving. It is form follow function, but not for show.
I agree with you that the stickers are unnecessary for the street. But then RS is for fun on the track. You can basically do anything you like to your car when it is about fun.
05-21-2012, 08:34 PM
#49
Not in MA anymore
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I hope the 997 looks dated like the 993 looks dated. Was at the Larz Anderson PCA Zone 1 show this weekend and the 993s (which I don't own) drew much more attention than the new 991 (which I also don't own). I think all the 911s look great!
Matt
Matt
05-21-2012, 10:25 PM
#51
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You need to know a bit more about cars to post this comment.
911 has basically the same shape for the last 40+ years. Its shape is timeless and buyers keep coming back. There are plenty of buyers that are shopping for 10, 20 or 30 years old Porsche 911, but can't say the same to any other car makers and their models.
New Porsche 911 is always the default sport car that others try to compare (and catch up) with any road tests. Never heard the same in any Mercedes.
The big wing of the GT3/RS is for extra downforce during high speed track driving. It is form follow function, but not for show.
I agree with you that the stickers are unnecessary for the street. But then RS is for fun on the track. You can basically do anything you like to your car when it is about fun.
911 has basically the same shape for the last 40+ years. Its shape is timeless and buyers keep coming back. There are plenty of buyers that are shopping for 10, 20 or 30 years old Porsche 911, but can't say the same to any other car makers and their models.
New Porsche 911 is always the default sport car that others try to compare (and catch up) with any road tests. Never heard the same in any Mercedes.
The big wing of the GT3/RS is for extra downforce during high speed track driving. It is form follow function, but not for show.
I agree with you that the stickers are unnecessary for the street. But then RS is for fun on the track. You can basically do anything you like to your car when it is about fun.
I'd do a little research on that and then spend a day watching barrett jackson.
05-21-2012, 10:26 PM
#52
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-and there in lies the root of the discussion. The 991 is definitely "new" chronologically but I think that is where it ends. The 991 visually is the most subtle 911 ever produced and certainly makes previous models look dated only if this were to become a trend. Hopefully not.
05-22-2012, 12:56 AM
#53
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I actually prefer the 964 to the 993 visually, but I think I am in a pretty small group there. Out of curiousity, what do 993 folks think of the 968 looks? I would argue they share a lot of visual cues, which is somewhat interesting to me given that I don't think a 964 and 944 have much of anything in common looks-wise.
05-22-2012, 01:42 AM
#54
We'll have to agree to disagree on the styling. It's a subjective thing though. Time will tell whether the 991 styling is as timeless as its predecessors.
One thing is clear. They won't be going back. If its like the 996.1 which is also a bit plain and was even more controversial, aero kits and tweeked styling cues will create some character.
I just wish Porsche had remembered that particular history lesson when they were styling the 991.
One thing is clear. They won't be going back. If its like the 996.1 which is also a bit plain and was even more controversial, aero kits and tweeked styling cues will create some character.
I just wish Porsche had remembered that particular history lesson when they were styling the 991.
And with 996 C2, which had all the curves taken out of the coke bottle, cant see how Porsche has made or replicated any such errors here with 991. So nothing for Porsche to reflect back on 996 in so far as perpetuating any error in new 991. The 991 car is very curvacious even in C2 forms. Re 996; it was only in 996C4S and turbo that the car stood the test of time...again because it had curves in the body. And, when 997 came out they put the curves back into the coke bottle in the base cars.....acknowledging the error in adddition to reinstating the round headlights. It's been all forward motion since 996.
-and there in lies the root of the discussion. The 991 is definitely "new" chronologically but I think that is where it ends. The 991 visually is the most subtle 911 ever produced and certainly makes previous models look dated only if this were to become a trend. Hopefully not.
. But don't agree that's where it ends....more so where it begins. When TT and GT cars come out 991 will only be getting better from there on. Not the other way. And for any new model not to date the predecessor is a fail.And on that note there is clearly no fail here with 991....well not imo anyway. I'm looking forward to GT3 and TT. These cars will only be looking (and going) even better.
I actually prefer the 964 to the 993 visually, but I think I am in a pretty small group there. Out of curiousity, what do 993 folks think of the 968 looks? I would argue they share a lot of visual cues, which is somewhat interesting to me given that I don't think a 964 and 944 have much of anything in common looks-wise.
05-22-2012, 01:51 AM
#55
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05-22-2012, 02:46 AM
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A couple of observations from a non owner of a 997 or 991, pre-ordering the 991 GT3 in anticipation that Stuttgart will get the driving experience more in line with my tastes in the GT cars:
- The 991 is the first car since the 993 C2S that looks great without all the extra paraphernalia needed to balance the proportions of the car. I like it w/o aero, in -20 form. More modern, more 'taut' and better proportions. I don't think the change is subtle at all, as the new creases longer wider platform, and raked windshield bring the 911 into the modern age.
- The GT3 RS's are hideous in terms of street cars; fine for track and most owners who have them are track junkies and view their cars through what is known as 'red mist'. I know, I was like that.
- None of the modern porsches are as appealing as my 964 Turbo, according to my wife. She thinks I'm crazy contemplating a new porsche as she thinks stylistically they are boring. She would rather see me buy an F430 at 991 pricing.
I'll see if I can find my other pics of the 964.
- The 991 is the first car since the 993 C2S that looks great without all the extra paraphernalia needed to balance the proportions of the car. I like it w/o aero, in -20 form. More modern, more 'taut' and better proportions. I don't think the change is subtle at all, as the new creases longer wider platform, and raked windshield bring the 911 into the modern age.
- The GT3 RS's are hideous in terms of street cars; fine for track and most owners who have them are track junkies and view their cars through what is known as 'red mist'. I know, I was like that.
- None of the modern porsches are as appealing as my 964 Turbo, according to my wife. She thinks I'm crazy contemplating a new porsche as she thinks stylistically they are boring. She would rather see me buy an F430 at 991 pricing.
I'll see if I can find my other pics of the 964.
05-22-2012, 02:56 AM
#58
A couple of observations from a non owner of a 997 or 991, pre-ordering the 991 GT3 in anticipation that Stuttgart will get the driving experience more in line with my tastes in the GT cars:
- The 991 is the first car since the 993 C2S that looks great without all the extra paraphernalia needed to balance the proportions of the car. I like it w/o aero, in -20 form. More modern, more 'taut' and better proportions. I don't think the change is subtle at all, as the new creases longer wider platform, and raked windshield bring the 911 into the modern age.
- The GT3 RS's are hideous in terms of street cars; fine for track and most owners who have them are track junkies and view their cars through what is known as 'red mist'. I know, I was like that.
- None of the modern porsches are as appealing as my 964 Turbo, according to my wife. She thinks I'm crazy contemplating a new porsche as she thinks stylistically they are boring. She would rather see me buy an F430 at 991 pricing.
I'll see if I can find my other pics of the 964.
- The 991 is the first car since the 993 C2S that looks great without all the extra paraphernalia needed to balance the proportions of the car. I like it w/o aero, in -20 form. More modern, more 'taut' and better proportions. I don't think the change is subtle at all, as the new creases longer wider platform, and raked windshield bring the 911 into the modern age.
- The GT3 RS's are hideous in terms of street cars; fine for track and most owners who have them are track junkies and view their cars through what is known as 'red mist'. I know, I was like that.
- None of the modern porsches are as appealing as my 964 Turbo, according to my wife. She thinks I'm crazy contemplating a new porsche as she thinks stylistically they are boring. She would rather see me buy an F430 at 991 pricing.
I'll see if I can find my other pics of the 964.
Love the 964 and 993 turbo...especially in black or dark blue. Last of the all time classics. The turbo body really holds up well and continues to do so. Maybe ask the missus to wait for 991tt to surface before making a final decision.
