alexb76

Point taken, haven't driven Boxster yet... however, my point is that NEW Boxster has improved more signifiantly over the last generation vs. Carrera... and numbers support it. Whether or not, Boxster is as good as 991 base, I am not sure yet, but it sure is closer than ever before (0-60 of 4.5 vs. 4.3!).

Mike in CA

Absolutely, no flames....the new Boxster is 1.3" longer than the old one, wheelbase 2.4" longer according to C&D.....just thought you hated Panamera console, extra lettering, and especially EM steering so was surprised when you were positive about the new Boxster which has all 3.....you're making great points about the Base cars......Tim?...Tim?......

alexb76

I don't care Mike, we can debate (but not on this thread) as you had an info that is irrelevant to the topic. Boxster has imrpoved more over 987, than Carrera has (just per Porsche numbers), and Base Carrera is closer indeed to Boxster performance than previous gen, and that's a fact.

@Tim, if you don't have anything to contribute, you can shut it, and just remain a fanby, and drool all over 991. Me and Mike has disagreed, but I respect his opinion, unlike yours. You guys like to flame anyone who says anything about 991 apart from pure and complete infatuation with the new car.

I know OP, and am free to state my opinion which is very factual as the difference between "Base" and "S" has increased over the generations, and that's just basic numbers from Porsche.... you wanna dispute those?

Carrera Carrera S HP Diff Difference
997.1 325 355 30 9.2%
997.2 345 385 40 11.6%
991 350 400 50 14.3%

carcommander

I think it is interesting that people will debate the "need" or "value" of a base car over the S. IMHO no car that starts at 90k is a value or need. If you are going to buy a toy why not get it with all the options you want. More HP ia always better.

gota911

Alex,

I have a 997.2, not a 991. However, I am realistic enough to understand that the 991 is improved in many ways over the 997.1 and 997.2. I do not feel threatened by the 991, as you seem to be.

My disagreement with your comments on many topics has rarely been the topic itself, but rather the way you portray your "conjecture" and your "opinion" as FACT. You have done this repeatedly, the most outrageous one being you claim that "all DFI engines burn an excessive amount of oil." Your latest claim that the 991, which is 2" longer than the the 997, was MASSIVE.

Quite frankly, you are given to hyperbole and conjecture. What concerns me the most is that the new 911 owners that have recently found Rennlist may be greatly misled and misinformed by your comments. I, for one, will not sit idly by and let you mislead other Rennlisters with your personal conjectures that you pass off as FACTUAL information.

sapman

Good luck with that.

speed21

LOL. Something tells me he'll need more than just luck...

rijowysock

The 991 base brakes are identical to the upgraded 997.2 base brakes. Great brakes but I love the looks of the new 6 pots. Love the looks of my cayennes 6 pots better however.

The new boxster is a great upgrade from before but for the small price difference in boxster S and 911 base I could never chose boxster. The 911 is an entirely different beast. It's like saying the Aston v12 vantage is amazing but I'd still rather have the big boy v12 DB9.

rijowysock

I will agree that the 987-->981 was a much bigger improvement than the 997-->991 (this being said without driving 981) because the previous boxster lacked in many area's to me.. that being said I still feel the 991 commands the premium over the 981 and that it is a better car IMO... the gap is tighter on the 997/991 because the 997 was a great platform, i feel the change on the boxster was more radical because it was long overdue for such a change..

I personally find the 2+2 nature of the 911 one of it's best features as it makes it a perfect daily driver... the boxster/cayman have tons of luggage space, but it's nearly impossible to cram hookers in either without removing limbs... the 991 can fit several hookers without any qualms, and you can still dismember a few and place in frunk.

gota911

Yeah, I know, but maybe both of you could help.

rijowysock

I disagree, the 911 is a great value... and in it's pricerange it kills the competition... problem with your theory is you have a 130k "S" before you know it and then it becomes less bang for buck.. my 991 is 90k and friends is 120k... the extra 30% for his is not worth it imo... ironically he likes mine better because of options chose/lack of options chosen...

sapman

Been there, done that, realized it was a futile exercise. (Hence my comment.)

carcommander

My 991S was 117 with a bunch of options. To my point it is a toy. There are many cars far less than 90K that are fun to drive. A used 997 is a far better "Value" than a new 991. Expensive cars are an emotional decision not a value driven one. If you are going to buy a toy, why get the base anything.

rijowysock

again i disagree, my car's are my toys and i've had plenty of them... just because i decided to buy a supercharged lotus exige 2 years ago to have fun with doesn't mean i need to go crazy and get the 2010 S260, turns out the 2007 S220 is actually over 100lbs lighter from the get go and easily upgradeable to 260Hp, and at the end of the day buying cash worked out and i made 12k on the vehicle when selling, make 10k on my 2011 cayenne, made 8k on my 2012 cayenne, made 1k on my 09 PDK 911, and broke even on my 05 997 cab...

i have no problem with you adding options and selling short/etc... i just treat it like a game and enjoy ordering exactly what I WANT, and negotiating to the point where i pay less than everyone else and then doing my homework and selling it to those willing to pay more.

when a person goes to a dealer and all the cars are 108-120k sticker and they see your just as sexy vehicle for 90k.... they rarely stop and tell you how badly they need park assist, they want the car and dont mind spending 18-30k less... my cayenne was cash buyer, he wanted to pay less and knew wife wouldnt care, other cayenne he didn't want to wait and didnt mind paying less for a car with less options and i actually have a friend that gave me 10k down to make sure i sell him the 991 for 85k in feb 2013 when my new car comes in... (btw, i didn't pay near 85k for the 991)

again, whatever works for you is great, but end of the day i got exactly the car i wanted, and i'm very happy.. it's a toy to me and finding value in something allows me to enjoy it more... same when i buy watches... even 100k watches can be a good value and i enjoy wearing them more when i know i did my research and got "a good deal"..... the extra 30k you spent on the "S" got me a new audemars on my wrist... so thats where i choose to spend the extra.



as far as 997's, i've been down that road and a used 997.2 for..... 60-70k is nowhere near the pleasure i get in my 991... my 997.1 was eh, 997.2 was great, 991 is phenomenal....

there is value in everything, never will i see the day where i disregard value in anything i buy whether its 100k watches, 100k cars, or anything in between.

kosmo

warning bad grammar ahead!
1. prefer 19s over the 20s
2. be tthe 991base is faster than the 997S
3. hate the fact that theres even a base/s distinction