Drove the 991 yesterday. Ahem.
04-24-2012, 12:07 PM
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Drove the 991 yesterday. Ahem.
I've been around porsches for a bit, and have been mostly track focused. But my interests have changed and I wanted a modern sports car for the daily commute, with an occasional track day thrown in. I thought the 991 would be perfect for me.
It isn't.
I drove a PDK sport chrono cab and found it drab. Fast, great sounding, great full leather interior, sexier, more modern curves (IMO), and exceptional rigidity and build quality. But, it failed to delver viscerally or emotionally.
I am waiting on the GT3 to see if that might scratch that itch. I thought the steering, while accurate, was no longer organic, it was lifeless. The front didn't move around at all. I think Stuttgart engineered the 911 out of the 991. The only time you could tell that it was a 911, was under hamfisted driving, which I don't want to have to do to be reminded I'm in a 911.
I think Porsche applied mechanical and to a large part electronic wizardry to zap the 911 out of the 991.
I knew when Clarkson said he liked the 991, it was a warning shot that the 911 might. . . just. . . be . . . dead.
OK, I won't be that dramatic. I still have faith that Stuttgart will address the early cars shortcomings in newer releases. But for now I'm gonna look at the 997 GTS.
I'm not hating on the 991 owners, it's a great car judged as a sports car. But as a 911 it falls short.
IMHO.
It isn't.
I drove a PDK sport chrono cab and found it drab. Fast, great sounding, great full leather interior, sexier, more modern curves (IMO), and exceptional rigidity and build quality. But, it failed to delver viscerally or emotionally.
I am waiting on the GT3 to see if that might scratch that itch. I thought the steering, while accurate, was no longer organic, it was lifeless. The front didn't move around at all. I think Stuttgart engineered the 911 out of the 991. The only time you could tell that it was a 911, was under hamfisted driving, which I don't want to have to do to be reminded I'm in a 911.
I think Porsche applied mechanical and to a large part electronic wizardry to zap the 911 out of the 991.
I knew when Clarkson said he liked the 991, it was a warning shot that the 911 might. . . just. . . be . . . dead.
OK, I won't be that dramatic. I still have faith that Stuttgart will address the early cars shortcomings in newer releases. But for now I'm gonna look at the 997 GTS.
I'm not hating on the 991 owners, it's a great car judged as a sports car. But as a 911 it falls short.
IMHO.
04-24-2012, 03:02 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Many road testers have had similar reactions...but prepare for the disdain of the faithful!
I have not driven one, but wonder if the tipping point is the e-steering.
I have not driven one, but wonder if the tipping point is the e-steering.
04-24-2012, 03:36 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
driven 1,800 miles (pdk, sport chrono, sport PASM etc) agree 100% with your comments. i don't plan to own this car for too much longer. this car just isn't doing it for me...
04-24-2012, 03:49 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
I have not driven one, but wonder if the tipping point is the e-steering.
04-24-2012, 04:16 PM
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I had the same reaction as Frayed. It's a better car, but didn't feel like a 911. The E-steering worked well, nicely weighted and no bump steer at all. Which was part of not feeling like a 911 in my mind.
Honestly it drove a lot like my Dinan 335. I know it's faster, corners better, and stops better; but the overall feel reminded me of the Bimmer which was very forgiving and well-composed.
Honestly it drove a lot like my Dinan 335. I know it's faster, corners better, and stops better; but the overall feel reminded me of the Bimmer which was very forgiving and well-composed.
04-24-2012, 05:15 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
I've been around porsches for a bit, and have been mostly track focused. But my interests have changed and I wanted a modern sports car for the daily commute, with an occasional track day thrown in. I thought the 991 would be perfect for me.
It isn't.
I drove a PDK sport chrono cab and found it drab. Fast, great sounding, great full leather interior, sexier, more modern curves (IMO), and exceptional rigidity and build quality. But, it failed to delver viscerally or emotionally.
I am waiting on the GT3 to see if that might scratch that itch. I thought the steering, while accurate, was no longer organic, it was lifeless. The front didn't move around at all. I think Stuttgart engineered the 911 out of the 991. The only time you could tell that it was a 911, was under hamfisted driving, which I don't want to have to do to be reminded I'm in a 911.
I think Porsche applied mechanical and to a large part electronic wizardry to zap the 911 out of the 991.
I knew when Clarkson said he liked the 991, it was a warning shot that the 911 might. . . just. . . be . . . dead.
OK, I won't be that dramatic. I still have faith that Stuttgart will address the early cars shortcomings in newer releases. But for now I'm gonna look at the 997 GTS.
I'm not hating on the 991 owners, it's a great car judged as a sports car. But as a 911 it falls short.
IMHO.
It isn't.
I drove a PDK sport chrono cab and found it drab. Fast, great sounding, great full leather interior, sexier, more modern curves (IMO), and exceptional rigidity and build quality. But, it failed to delver viscerally or emotionally.
I am waiting on the GT3 to see if that might scratch that itch. I thought the steering, while accurate, was no longer organic, it was lifeless. The front didn't move around at all. I think Stuttgart engineered the 911 out of the 991. The only time you could tell that it was a 911, was under hamfisted driving, which I don't want to have to do to be reminded I'm in a 911.
I think Porsche applied mechanical and to a large part electronic wizardry to zap the 911 out of the 991.
I knew when Clarkson said he liked the 991, it was a warning shot that the 911 might. . . just. . . be . . . dead.
OK, I won't be that dramatic. I still have faith that Stuttgart will address the early cars shortcomings in newer releases. But for now I'm gonna look at the 997 GTS.
I'm not hating on the 991 owners, it's a great car judged as a sports car. But as a 911 it falls short.
IMHO.
Not to worry. They'll be along shortly.
Am I allowed to say I love my GTS here and thrilled I didn't wait for the 991?
04-24-2012, 05:27 PM
#7
I've been around porsches for a bit, and have been mostly track focused. But my interests have changed and I wanted a modern sports car for the daily commute, with an occasional track day thrown in. I thought the 991 would be perfect for me.
It isn't.
I drove a PDK sport chrono cab and found it drab. Fast, great sounding, great full leather interior, sexier, more modern curves (IMO), and exceptional rigidity and build quality. But, it failed to delver viscerally or emotionally.
I am waiting on the GT3 to see if that might scratch that itch. I thought the steering, while accurate, was no longer organic, it was lifeless. The front didn't move around at all. I think Stuttgart engineered the 911 out of the 991. The only time you could tell that it was a 911, was under hamfisted driving, which I don't want to have to do to be reminded I'm in a 911.
I think Porsche applied mechanical and to a large part electronic wizardry to zap the 911 out of the 991.
I knew when Clarkson said he liked the 991, it was a warning shot that the 911 might. . . just. . . be . . . dead.
OK, I won't be that dramatic. I still have faith that Stuttgart will address the early cars shortcomings in newer releases. But for now I'm gonna look at the 997 GTS.
I'm not hating on the 991 owners, it's a great car judged as a sports car. But as a 911 it falls short.
IMHO.
It isn't.
I drove a PDK sport chrono cab and found it drab. Fast, great sounding, great full leather interior, sexier, more modern curves (IMO), and exceptional rigidity and build quality. But, it failed to delver viscerally or emotionally.
I am waiting on the GT3 to see if that might scratch that itch. I thought the steering, while accurate, was no longer organic, it was lifeless. The front didn't move around at all. I think Stuttgart engineered the 911 out of the 991. The only time you could tell that it was a 911, was under hamfisted driving, which I don't want to have to do to be reminded I'm in a 911.
I think Porsche applied mechanical and to a large part electronic wizardry to zap the 911 out of the 991.
I knew when Clarkson said he liked the 991, it was a warning shot that the 911 might. . . just. . . be . . . dead.
OK, I won't be that dramatic. I still have faith that Stuttgart will address the early cars shortcomings in newer releases. But for now I'm gonna look at the 997 GTS.
I'm not hating on the 991 owners, it's a great car judged as a sports car. But as a 911 it falls short.
IMHO.
But the steering is the problem with the 991 (and no, I'm not harping on the same topic, I'm trying to expand my comments as I put another week or two and another 500 miles behind me. There's been some freeway, some deep snow driving with chains and yesterday a quick hop over to school (about 20 miles each way with a 10 mile run up and down a 2000 foot mountain along some marvelously winding, connected road that keeps your eyes on the apexes) to bring both kids home, along with their school bags, running shoes, etc. I see the 991 as the consumate allrounder, but it will irk the 997 driver because of the steering, nothing else. Handling is fun. Feedback through the chassis to the driver's sixth sense is much the same as the 997, but without the NVH (less cabin noise, less suspension harshness, still not a luxurious GT -- a Lexus or BMW or Mercedes driver would perhaps complain about the ride quality and compliance whereas the 911 driver would respect the compromise tending towards control and high limits and I think most 911 drivers would remark on how the ride, especially at speed on challenging roads, is confident and assured even though the speedo might be pointing 5 mph higher than the equivalent driving in a 997. Yes, you can go another 10 mph higher again in the 997 3.8 RS, but the car will let you know you're at flanking speed and it's up to you to keep the show on the road.
The 991 steering does become responsive and precise when correctly aligned. My car arrived with toe-in and rear wasn't symmetrical. Once I put in -1.3 +/- front camber and a smidgen of toe-out, it transformed the handling. Transformed. But the steering assist is horrid. Just disgusting. And if you have the luxury of driving both 997 (I still have a 3.8 RS) and the 991, the best I can suggest is don't drive them too soon after each other or you'll be reminded or the extreme delta between the two in steering feel.
Okay, that's about the gist of it for me until I finally get some track time asap (hopefully Sears and Laguna in the next week or three) so meanwhile, I'm just drumming my fingers on the table waiting for AAPL and BIDU numbers ... then I go shopping for a 4.0 RS ... or a Lada Niva ... could go either way ... : )
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04-24-2012, 07:16 PM
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In the “around town” rally I run most days, I’ve found I enjoy the 997 more than the 991. Granted, it’s a choice of a PDK S 991(1800 miles in) v manual turbo 997. Nevertheless, as truly sweet as the 991 is, the road-car-driver connection seems a bit diluted. That’s just the feeling of the thing, not based on track time or honed driving skills.
04-24-2012, 08:10 PM
#9
Drifting
No Waxer, you're not. You know that all of us GTS owners are living a life of desperation and denial trying to convince ourselves that we like our GTS better than a 991, while we are secretly lusting for a 991. Heck, one of the three you referenced even admits to never have driven a 991, and has no opinion on a 991, yet somehow mysteriously knows that it is light years ahead of a GTS, and we are desperately trying to convince ourselves otherwise.
04-24-2012, 08:52 PM
#10
Instructor
"Okay, that's about the gist of it for me until I finally get some track time asap (hopefully Sears and Laguna in the next week or three) so meanwhile, I'm just drumming my fingers on the table waiting for AAPL and BIDU numbers ... then I go shopping for a 4.0 RS ... or a Lada Niva ... could go either way ... : )"
Hope you sold those AAPL's a week ago then.
Hope you sold those AAPL's a week ago then.
04-24-2012, 09:42 PM
#12
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The 991 is "the first generation 991" not the 7th generation 911.
04-24-2012, 10:10 PM
#13
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04-24-2012, 10:32 PM
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The more I read posts like this, the more I question whether I really ever wanted a 911. I _love_ my 991, and I have already swung the rear around more than a couple times (not always intentionally). More pendulum would probably just scare me. It is plenty for me.