Drove the 991 yesterday. Ahem.
#46
I love how you guys are complaing about lack of steering feel. Going from my 88 Carrera (fun/track car) to my 08 Civic Si is about the worst when in comes to change in steering feel. Haven't driven a 991 but I can guarantee it is leaps and bounds better than the Civic (and it better be). But I guess driver involvement is the reason people buy 911's.
#47
I had a similar reaction when I started reading these forums. I assumed the forums were populated by car guys who were positive about cars. That's obviously not the case. Some of the most vociferous posters aren't car guys at all .. they're Internet forum guys. Just posting the same endless self satisfied BS to **** people off. It's the same in every sport or hobby, be it cars, aeroplanes, photography, wine, what have you. The same bunch of tw*ts always come out and spoil it. On the flip side, there are plenty of individuals who bring positive comments and occasionally there is some value information posted, so in the end it's worth it to participate.
#48
I had a similar reaction when I started reading these forums. I assumed the forums were populated by car guys who were positive about cars. That's obviously not the case. Some of the most vociferous posters aren't car guys at all .. they're Internet forum guys. Just posting the same endless self satisfied BS to **** people off. It's the same in every sport or hobby, be it cars, aeroplanes, photography, wine, what have you. The same bunch of tw*ts always come out and spoil it. On the flip side, there are plenty of individuals who bring positive comments and occasionally there is some value information posted, so in the end it's worth it to participate.
I love how you guys are complaing about lack of steering feel. Going from my 88 Carrera (fun/track car) to my 08 Civic Si is about the worst when in comes to change in steering feel. Haven't driven a 991 but I can guarantee it is leaps and bounds better than the Civic (and it better be). But I guess driver involvement is the reason people buy 911's.
Based on some of the comments here, anything past the very first 911 iteration can't really be called a 911 now can it..??
#49
Flip side of that - I appreciate the new feedback from people like n2cars, MJones, and frayed, be it positive or negative - they are true enthusiasts with similar taste in vehicles, and I value their opinions.
#50
That said, the 991 guys who are feeling hurt and ridiculed need to secure themselves in their decision to purchase a 991. We buy toys because we want to, not because we seek approval from faceless internet denizens with multi-thousand post counts.
#51
And fwiw I don't have any problem with enthusiasts "true" or "otherwise" passing a negative opinion, just that there does come a point in time where repetition sets in and monotony and angst takes over and I think we are at that stage on this topic. It's always the same old tired argument that comes up every time Porsche brings a new generation car to the table, and always predomiately from owners sitting in the outgoing model. It's like an obligatory period of adjustment that often winds up seeing the biggest wingers later being the biggest fans....and usually after they have bought one.
The reality is todays new 991 will become tomorrows classic 911 at one point, and to say the newer car is less involving signals success that Porsche has made the machine more competent. And that is generally a good thing. The competition isn't standing still so why should Porsche? Or do the "true" enthusiasts believe Porsche should have stopped at the 997.....or sorry, 993....after all that was air cooled.
#52
Speed21 - welcome to (I assume) a fellow Aussie.
As ADias notes above, we at Rennlist are a community, a rather long standing one at that.
I have come here for nigh on a decade because I - for want of a far better description - furtively "love" the 911, and wish to see it continue ever upwards. Proving to all and sundry that the sine qua non of driving comes from having the engine at the "wrong" end'; a flat 6 possessed of a siren's song; handling dynamics that merge you into its core; and a visage that has been elegantly honed over almost 50 years.
In my time at Rennlist we've adjudged the benefits of evolving the 996.1 to its rather better looking successor, nodded sagely as 997.1 demonstrated that indeed a 993 and 996 could copulate and enhance the genetics....and were (largely) delighted when their second offspring further moved the game on.
So when the lads at Weissach sought to evolve the 997.2 by dipping into the Panamera's genetic pool...well you can probably understand we were a tad cautious.
Not so much because we're moldy old figs who thought the best 901 was a 356 but because....well we ain't exactly sure Porsche has done it right this time (and yes i've driven a 991S).
The jury is out, and in this community is endeavouring to discern whether this 991...does really meet our definition of a 911. Hence, this at times ribald debate.
Me thinks the 991 will be embraced, but I suspect it might take a GT version (rather as it took the 996.1 GT3 to convince the air coolers that water pumping was legit in a 911) before there is a warm embrace of this newest iteration.
Welcome again!
As ADias notes above, we at Rennlist are a community, a rather long standing one at that.
I have come here for nigh on a decade because I - for want of a far better description - furtively "love" the 911, and wish to see it continue ever upwards. Proving to all and sundry that the sine qua non of driving comes from having the engine at the "wrong" end'; a flat 6 possessed of a siren's song; handling dynamics that merge you into its core; and a visage that has been elegantly honed over almost 50 years.
In my time at Rennlist we've adjudged the benefits of evolving the 996.1 to its rather better looking successor, nodded sagely as 997.1 demonstrated that indeed a 993 and 996 could copulate and enhance the genetics....and were (largely) delighted when their second offspring further moved the game on.
So when the lads at Weissach sought to evolve the 997.2 by dipping into the Panamera's genetic pool...well you can probably understand we were a tad cautious.
Not so much because we're moldy old figs who thought the best 901 was a 356 but because....well we ain't exactly sure Porsche has done it right this time (and yes i've driven a 991S).
The jury is out, and in this community is endeavouring to discern whether this 991...does really meet our definition of a 911. Hence, this at times ribald debate.
Me thinks the 991 will be embraced, but I suspect it might take a GT version (rather as it took the 996.1 GT3 to convince the air coolers that water pumping was legit in a 911) before there is a warm embrace of this newest iteration.
Welcome again!
#53
I agree the 991 is fast, not Scuderia fast, but fast enough. I found the 991 comfortable, quiet, nice interior, and easy to drive. All positive features. I was hoping the car had a little more "attitude", a little more "edginess" to it. I wanted to feel butterflies in my stomach like you get on that first date or that 200 foot drop on a roller coaster ride. The 991 just didn't do it for me and other cars have. Porsche has built a nice car in the 991 it's just not for me. Maybe the GT3 will.
#55
I drove the car hard for two hours. I really wanted to like the car but it didn't happen. The car lacked excitement. The PDK shifting was too slow for my tastes. Porsche has made a great car but somehow has taken the sportiness out of the car. One way I judge a car is this; does it make me want to write a check right then and there? The car I drove just didn't make me write the check.
I typically buy my cars cash, and I would wait for my order rather than buy a car on the ground. The driving experience did not get me even remotely close to writing that check.
OTOH, when I first drove the 997S after 3 996's, I was like HELLL YEAH!
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Some of you 991 owners or prospective owners need to find a way to be secure in your purchase. My comments are simply my opinion based on my tastes/habits/experiences. The 991 is, as the many reviews state, objectively better in every way than its predecessor. But subjectively, is it appealing? That's for you to decide.
I'm not here to rain on anybody's parade, and I went into the test drive excited. I even told my wife and kids that after I figure out PDK v. manual I planned to order one this week. I *wanted* to love the car.
I'm probably more of a hard core BMW enthusiast, I've owned several and still have my first true love, the E36 M3. To me BMW lost its way with larger, heavier, turbocharged cars and left behind the visceral feel of the mid nineties metal and older. That's when I jumped over Porsche. I feel like Porsche has now done the same thing. . . but I'm holding out hope for upcoming GT cars.
Last edited by frayed; 04-26-2012 at 01:02 PM. Reason: fuller reply
#56
I was in a similar position a few weeks ago and the driving experience *did* make we want to write a check. However the dealership didn't want to take my check, so I bought a Maserati instead.
#59
Wondering if a base 991 without any electonic options (PASM, PDCC, PDK etc...) would be better concerning the edginess, attitude we love about 911s... Anybody test drove one yet or any reviews in magazines? Really curious about that...
#60
I have to admit I have been very pleased with my 991. I even decided to join this forum to discuss the car/porsches with others who are also into the brand. Unfortunately I have to admit that joining this forum was a mistake. All I have read is disdain and venom towards the car I purchased from people who supposedly support the brand. I guess I shouldn't go to any Porsche Club meetings either because I assume I will be ridiculed for my taste in cars from people such as yourself. At least my wife is hot.
Stick around... 991 just came out and you will only see reviews for weeks!
Car guys are by nature passionate, and Porsche enthusiasts are the most passionate about what they care about, and the 911 heritage and how a car should perform, handle, ride, feel!
991 unfortunately is a departure from some unique elements of 911 that has been there for many years, it is softer, a lot more electronics, electrical steering, much larger, different handling dynamics, A LOT HARDER to maintain for enthusiasts (oil, brakes, filter, etc), etc... it is in general a better car, but NOT a better 911, so you gotto excuse 911 lovers of being negative towards Porsche screwing with their dreamcar!