neanicu

That's what I was thinking,when you buy new you take a hit if you sell it in a couple of years. It makes sense though if I was to keep it for 10 years.

rodsky

Given you want a weekend toy and MT, 997.2 GT3. Last of the Mezger engine. 991 is a great car but trending more toward the GT spectrum vs. the GT3 which will be more sporty. Good luck. I'd go GT3 > GTS > 991. If it were a multi-purpose DD/ weekend fun car all in one, I'd reverse the order.

Hwyranger

GT3

MrSelfDestruct

Understood. I've only actually heard the 991 with PSE. Details like exhaust note are of course personal preference.

Nugget

Just to add a counter point, I disagree. If you're not a track junkie or don't think that you'd like to become a track junkie then you should skip the GT3. The benefits of the GT3 are impossible to exploit on the street. Heck, the differences are even difficult to even discern on the street, and the downsides are many. With no track plans, buy a GTS and it'll be just as thrilling and a lot more livable.

Copying judiciously from a previous post of mine on this subject...

I guess the bottom line is this -- the difference in handling and performance, on the street, between a GT3 and a "regular" Carrera 2S is minimal to nonexistent. At 8/10ths of the limit they're pretty much the same experience. It's only at 9/10ths and beyond, at extra-legal speeds, that the differences come into play.

That's the honest truth. My street-driving experience didn't really change at all when I sold my C2S and bought the GT3 RS. The C2S wasn't any less fun to toss around, it wasn't any less fun to run on the streets and highways, it wasn't any less great at street driving. For reals. It was quite a bit less of a hassle on the street, but that better livability didn't come at the expense of street performance.

Absent track miles, there's not much upside to a GT3, from a technical and performance standpoint.

Now, sure, from a heritage and aspirational standpoint the GT3 RS is leagues beyond a "regular" 911. If you're willing to endure the compromised comfort and utility solely for the sake of aesthetics then that's your call. I just don't think it really translates to an actual difference in driving pleasure/fun/excitement. Really. I honestly think that.

You can't hoon around a street corner any faster in a GT3 than you can in a C2S. You can't pass someone on the highway any faster in a GT3 than you can in a C2S (not measurably, at least). On the street you won't be stopping any quicker, turning any sharper, or blowing any more doors off at traffic lights in either car.

The front lip scrapes on every parking deck. The lightweigt flywheel makes traffic lights a challenge. The flywheel clatter will convince every passenger or pedestrian within earshot that the car is broken. Every fifth or sixth time you start the car up it will fart out a giant cloud of oil smoke. Rear visibility is poor due to the wing.

Al those downsides, and what are the upsides? Almost completely irrelevant for the street. You get:

A true dry sump GT1 "Mezger" engine which allows you use slicks (which aren't even street legal) without fear of oil starvation issues. Not a benefit for a car which isn't tracked.

Larger brakes to avoid brake fade when you're braking down from 100+mph lap after lap after lap on the track. Not something you find yourself doing on the street.

A more adjustable suspension which allows you dial in negative camber for better cornering on the track, also turning the car into a nervous, twitchy, tire-eating monster. Great on the track, but not something you will find beneficial on the street.

A huge rear wing that provides more cornering downforce at speeds you'll never achieve on the highway (at least not under cornering load).

An aggressive front splitter that reduces lift at speeds you'll never approach on the street.

There are plenty of features on the GT3 which are invaluable on the track but they are largely irrelevant on the street. Unless you're going to take the car onto a track you're buying capabilities that you will never (or only very rarely) even be able to detect, much less enjoy. Even if you won't be bothered by the downsides you'll still never exploit the benefits.

At 8/10ths a GT3 really isn't that much different than a GTS. And you shouldn't be at 9/10ths on the street no matter how much of an enthusiast you are or how soul-satisfying you find the GT3 heritage. Sure, there's a great sense of occasion when you turn the key in a GT3, but a GTS is still a damn special car and a Porsche.

Here's the bottom line (and this will probably get a bit scrolly):

When you're buying cars that cost upwards of $100K, there stops being a "good, better, best." Porsche make 30 different flavors of 911. You simply cannot put them in a line from worst to best. The buying philosophy that works for more pedestrian cars just doesn't work once you cross a certain price point.

If you're buying a BMW 3 Series it's simple. You make the line of cars from worst to best, decide what you want to spend, pick that spot on the line and Bob's your uncle -- you've got your car.

With a 911, what? Which is better? A Turbo S or a GT3 RS? The answer is elusive -- they're two different cars built for very different things. Which is better, a Turbo S or a GTS? Again -- that's a tough call. Turbo S is dramatically faster, but also less fun in the twisties and less "pure." I'd never council an S2K guy to buy a Turbo -- you almost certainly want to stick to the RWD flavors of the 911.

With the GT3 and GT3 RS you've really got a very focused set of options and features. These are cars that are built for the track. That doesn't mean they're "better" than the more street-oriented Porsches, it just means they're a more specialized tool. Just like the Turbo is aimed an entirely different set of capabilities.

I'm the world's worst offender for always wanting to buy "the best" of whatever I'm buying. When selecting products I always start at the top of any model range and work my way down if budget or circumstances demand. I get it, I really do. It's easy to see those historic "RS" letters and assume the same approach with the GT3 RS. Isn't Porsche saying it's "the best" 911? But it isn't, really. It's a 911 for track junkies, which isn't the same thing at all.

This reality is evidenced by the startling number of GT3s you can find on the secondary market, owned for a year and sold or traded with just a few thousand miles or less. Guys get the GT3 then wonder what they were thinking because on the street it's just not any faster or more fun than their old C2S. Sometime around the third replacement chin spoiler they realize that they're not really getting much satisfaction from knowing that the brakes have extra cooling ducts or that the engine is "super durable" or that they could, in a fit of lunacy, dial in 2.5 degrees of negative camber up front without needing to buy aftermarket suspension hardware. So they trade in on a GTS or a Turbo and really get "the best" 911.

And I know that through this whole thread it probably sounds like I'm trying to deter you from buying a GT3, but really that's not where I'm coming from. I grew up with posters of the '73 RS on my bedroom wall, lusted after the RS America, and made squeals of joy like an adolescent schoolgirl when the 996 GT3 hit the US market. As much as I love these rear-engined quirks of racing, I'm a sucker for the Porsche marque and pomp.

Orange wheels and that "RS" script on the side of the car give me a thrill -- and if you're in that boat then you should just suck it up and buy the "RS" because otherwise you'll forever be wondering. Maybe yours will end up for resale 12 months later like many do, but at least then you'll know it wasn't for you. If that's where your head is then there's only one actual solution. Sometimes it's impossible to escape the siren song of marketing and heritage.

But you did say you wanted a candid response, so I'm being honest. These cars aren't that awesome on the street. A GTS will be 99.9995% as thrilling on the street, without a lot of the nuisance. If I didn't track my car I'd ditch and and get a GTS in a heartbeat. Same street experience, really, without the additional hassle and expense. For a street-only buyer, ignoring the emotional component of the purchase, I think a GT3 is a poor choice.

But if you buy the GT3 I'll be the first to wave and gawk and smile at you. Just be ready for me to never stop shutting up about getting you out to the track to really see what it can do

neanicu

Hey Nugget!
Thanks man,you really got me thinking now...
I just love the looks of a GT3 and in cabin feel,but maybe it's not worth it.
I was going to check out a GTS too as another member suggested,so I'll see...

Bill_C4S

Whilst according Nugget's well considered dissection of the GT3 versus its more "cultured" brother the GTS substantial validity, there is one aspect that to me places the GT3 on a different stimulation plain.

Namely: Aural. At 8500rpm, the Metzger flat 6 is quite simply provocative.

Something I never grew tired of....

Targa Tim

Wow Nugget,

What a thorough comparisons of various 911 models!

I totally agreed with your views on GT3/RS vs C2S. I much prefer to use my club coupe for daily driving duties. Just as fast and as much fun on the street, more comfortable, easier on street bumps, and attracts much less attention (a good bonus). If I don't track, I may not buy my RS at all.

911 Crazy

+1

frayed

Having owned both the 996 GT3 and the 997.1 GT3, and the 997 S launch car, I completely agree with Nugget. I haven't driven the 997 GTS, but my 997 S launch car was a far better street car than either GT3. More compliant, better tq down low (it seemed), more subdued so you don't have to deal with all the chodes trying to race you, no nose scraping, etc.

On track my 997 GT3 was a weapon. But I realized that I'd rather drive a slow car fast rather than a fast car slow, on the track. You can't be a 'giant killer' on the track with a GT3, but it is fun to dog Vipers, Vettes, and all sorts of Pcars in an E36 M3. That, and I simply felt that the capabilities of a GT3 on track were so high, the car merited a full cage, harnesses, HANS, etc., all of which would completely ruin the street worthiness of the GT3. The cost of a screwup at 170 is a bit different than 125.

The 997 GT3 is a badazz rig, but more highly compromised than I care for for street use.

liurad

Nugget... Wow! That was a PhD thesis for Pcar buying guide. Every Pcar buyer ought to read it a few times. Well done.

buckwheat987

I dont see a startling numbers of gt3's for sale...according to carsdotcom there are 46 GT3's for sale in the US.

either is a good choice but every timeI go to a C&C the GT3 is the car i crave.

fbroen

Nugget -- thank you for that well thought out post. Great read.

911Jetta

+1.

carcommander

+1 I loved having my GT3RS but it wasn't much fun to drive on the street.