Sean in Texas

And the tires' issues had to do with the cold...My PSs aren't any good in the cold and wet either.

Quadcammer

not at the track it doesn't.

This is an asinine report. In the rain? Really?

If you want to be fair, compare a Carrera S with a ZR1. Trust me when I say it won't be the porsche owner laughing.

triode

No, the fair comparo there (vs. supercharged V8) is the GT2RS...

Rushman71

I can build a track car for $30K that will crush them both. So what? That's not what these comparisons are based on.

VELOCITY 997

I could not said it better my self. You make an excellent point.

Mike in CA

I have absolutely nothing against GM. I hope they do well. It's an American manufacturing company that employs American workers, most all of whom pay taxes. Anyone who thinks that our country and economy would have been better off if GM and Chrysler and all the associated supplier jobs had been allowed to go down the tubes, or been chopped up in bankruptcy court and sold to the highest foreign bidders, is way off base.

That said, while we may see 911's and Corvettes as appealing to a somewhat different consumer base, there are people who see the two as competitors both on the track and in the showroom, and they are at Chevrolet. Just read Chevy's Corvette ad copy and listen to their drivers and racing teams. Too many more reviews like the one in MT, and they should do some serious soul searching about how well their performance/value tradeoff is working. If I were to base a decision solely on that review, I wouldn't want a Grand Sport over a 991 at any price.

neanicu

Thanks.

And today Motortrend posted another review about the new 991,this time the 991 cab. They had yet again great things to say about it. You can check the article here :

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t_first_drive/

I believe that Corvette supporters like Quadcammer and others know why Porsche is the car that you're aspiring to be compared to,because it is an icon in the sports car industry and racing.
The fact remains that no matter how much power you put in your engines (see ZR1),as long as that doesn't come with great engineering,passion,research etc...then you are still far away from your goal of being compared to the best. And as long as you'll continue to use bad quality materials,cheap looking interiors and outdated engineering,then you will continue to use as your main ' excuse ' that Porsche costs a lot more money.

Quadcammer

Are you mental? You want to compare the $110k ZR1 (which is less than even a moderately loaded C2s) with a limited edition, $270k GT2 RS.

Face it, for the money, the corvette absolutely destroys the porsche in just about every performance metric.

What are they based on? A wet day of mountain driving?

A grandsport is a tarted up base model vette with some nice touches (dry sump, exhaust, etc). May as well take the base model vette, which runs half of what the 911 does. Obviously the porsche is the NICER car. Hell, My S-class which stickered at $115k sure is a nicer car than a $55k cadillac.

When you give chevrolet the same dollar amount that they can charge, they deliver a vehicle which obliterates all but the most expensive porsches in almost every way.

No, these cars are not all bang for the buck, but one silly in the rain comparison that is based primarily on the tires on the vette is nothing porsche supporters should be parroting for the next 4 years, although I'm sure its gonna happen anyway.

neanicu

Quadcammer,do you own a Porsche?
Maybe you're on the wrong forum,calling Porsche owners ' mental '.
The piece of crap Corvette forums are found on the 4th and 5th pages when you do a Google search.
You're obviously joined this forum because Porsche is a dream car for you but unfortunately the best you can do for now is a Chevrolet.

LastMezger

I'm not sure I understand...are you suggesting these cars should only be driven on dry pavement?

I don't know about you but I enjoy driving my Porsche in ALL kinds of weather. That's not something you can do in most Vettes...which is fine if that's what customers are after but it's also a legitimate shortcoming.

All that said, the comparison that makes the most sense in terms of price and intent is GT3 vs. Z06.

Mike in CA

"Face it, for the money a Timex quartz absolutely destroys the Rolex in just about every performance metric." As with watches and many other things, there's more to a car than just raw numbers........

Look, I have a lot of respect for the Corvette's track prowess, but personally I have trouble right off the bat getting past the plastic bodywork and boy racer styling. And there's more to fault here than just wet weather performance and tires. (Can't Chevy afford decent ones that work as well as Porsches' at the Vette's price point?) The test also describes the noise, antiquated instrumentation, crappy seats, cheap interior materials, rough ride, overly light steering, and jerky transmission. Just how much sacrifice should someone have to make to feel validated by the price differential? Even more horsepower (Z06, ZR1) are not going to resolve those issues. Maybe a new model will; that remains to be seen.

Quadcammer

993TT

Being cheaper is not an excuse. At every trim level and price point, the corvette is superior in performance.

I don't drive terribly aggressively in wet weather. The performance envelope is too high on these cars. I don't judge a car's performance by what it can do in the rain. Its not like you can't drive a corvette in the rain. Trust me, the corvette is fine for regular driving in wet weather. But then I don't think its smart to try to wring out 400bhp cars in the rain.

Although I disagree about price (z06 is about $80k, GT3 is $120k or so), intent you are quite right. I think you'll find the 7 year old Z06 performs quite comparably to a 997 GT3 on the track.

The watch argument is fine, but really the timex is every bit as good a watch as a rolex. Rolex is jewelry for the arm, as are any number of the brands (and I own several rolexes, so I appreciate the quality/engineering).

Plastic body work? I personally don't care. You can make it from play doh for all I care so long as it stays in place. It also doesn't rust. Thats a personal issue I think...as are the looks.

As for the tires, they are more dry oriented, especially when paired with a front engine rear drive layout. I'm not sure corvette owners would be too pleased if they got tires that could not hook up in the dry as a sacrifice for somewhat better wet weather driving.

Noise-Well, its a sports car right? Less sound deadening-lighter
Antiquated instrumentation- Does it display everything you need to know? Is it easy to read? I say yes to both, especially with the heads up display. Is that antiquated? Maybe, but they are gauges. Many people rave about the 993 and earlier gauges, and thats about as antiquated as it gets.

crappy seats...100% agreed. The seats blow and its been a corvette weak point since the C5. They are garbage and GM should do better.

cheap interior materials...You can get the interior covered with leather for about $8k. In this case, its the matter of dressing up a $50k car, as opposed to starting with a $97k car. That $47k goes VERY far when it comes to materials. Some would argue that you should be worried more about how the car drives than how the interior materials are.

Rough ride...a 997 doesn't ride like a cadillac either, but granted its a stiff ride. The benefit is very little body roll. Have not driven a 991 to compare.

I didn't find the steering overly light. Then again, steering weight doesn't bother me much either way so long as the feel is there. You don't need a brick heavy wheel to get feedback.

Jerky transmission...meh. The Tr6060 is not jerky to me.


What i got from the article was that the 911 was more liveable every day and nicer inside, while providing comparable performance. And thats what you are paying for.

However, if we go to a higher model vette (a Fully loaded ZR1 is still about $15k cheaper than the carrera in the mag example), the performance is no longer comparable.

So, If I had to plunk down my $115k for a nicely loaded 991, I could get a loaded ZR1 for the same money. The ZR1 provides far greater performance, at the cost of a cheaper, older looking interior, plastic bodywork, and a notchy gearbox. The 911 has more interior room, more upscale interior materials, and is far more liveable.

Trade offs is all.



P.S. I think its cute that car magazines write "brilliant" articles when the porsche wins, but when the other car wins, its all BS, car mags know nothing, etc.

fbroen

I realize the source of all this was a comparo, but I don't really understand the point of comparing Corvettes to Porsches. They are different things for people with different tastes and priorities.

I wish Chevrolet all the success and am delighted there is American manufacturing.

Personally, however, I am interested in a Porsche product, but have zero interest in a Corvette. If people want to cross shop them that is great, but I would imagine the cross-section between the two buyer groups is rather small.

Mike in CA

Sure, and what one person sees as merely a "trade off", another finds to be an intolerable fault. This issue will never be resolved as so much of it depends on subjective preference. On the street, the performance arguments are largely irrelevant as no Porsche or Corvette can be used to anywhere near it's potential. So is a potential second or two on the race track and a lower price worth putting up with relatively inferior workmanship and less all around, every day liveability and in some situations, capability? Each person has to answer that for themselves and then vote with their wallet.

As to your PS, I suspect that cuts both ways. If the MT test had the Grand Sport blowing away the 991, or even being in the same ballpark, there would have been plenty of crowing from the Corvette crowd.

Selo

I love Porsches, but after my Bondurant course driving a Z06, I'm finding myself perusing Corvette inventories online. The car didn't feel nearly as substantial as ours, and it's not anywhere near a work of art from an aesthetic standpoint, but that torque is addictive!