Driving Impressions of the 991
11-01-2011, 01:52 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
Well, there are at least two possibilities. Either he honestly likes the car or he is biased. Your conclusion is that he "comes off completly biased". Really? Why? Because he doesn't find fault? Let's assume, just for the sake of argument, that the car really is terrific and he does really like it. How should Roerhl communicate that in a way that you wouldn't find biased? Your assumption apparently is that Roerhl is willing to jeapordize his storied reputation, play the good Porsche employee, and praise a car he actually finds lacking. Maybe. Seems to me though, that there's a lot more bias and presumption in that perspective than there is in Roerhl's comment.
'Nuff said- Just found the quote humorous since again, in the translation, it just comes off as completely staged and phoney.
Can't wait for the real reviews- I do think it will be good!
11-01-2011, 03:27 AM
#17
Race Director
If, for example, you could have asked Steve Jobs about the iPad before it's release, or Luca di Montezemolo about the Ferrari F458, I think they would have told you they were going to be great designs. As it turns out, they were. But based on your assumptions, both were paid in conjunction with those products, so their opinions would not have been of interest.
It's fine to say that you also want to get feedback from someone outside Porsche on the 991, although good luck finding an opinion from anyone who is completely unbiased. You will rarely find a completely objective observer of anything; almost everyone has a point of view or an axe to grind. I just object to dismissing as "completly biased", on spec, the views of someone reputable like Roehrl, who has been spot on in their evaluations so many times in the past.
Now let's see those unbiased "real reviews"!
11-01-2011, 09:12 AM
#18
Nordschleife Master
I am amazed to see people here talking about Walter Rohrl like his opinion doesn't count just because he's working for Porsche. Maybe you don't know who Walter Rohrl is...This guy is a LEGEND in racing! Walter Rohrl raced cars for other manufactures besides Porsche,like Opel,Lancia,Fiat or Audi. Actually his opinion is probably the most important one if you're looking at a 991 as your future Porsche,from the perspective of PURE fun driving,racing abilities etc. If I want opinions about Back up camera,Bluetooth, Navigation and all the other crap that mean 0 for a car like this,then I'll wait for different opinions.
And by the way,over time most Auto magazines,test drivers,motor shows that tested Porsches have gotten much better performance numbers that Porsche actually stated. That alone makes me trust Walter Rohrl's opinion even though he's working for Porsche.
And by the way,over time most Auto magazines,test drivers,motor shows that tested Porsches have gotten much better performance numbers that Porsche actually stated. That alone makes me trust Walter Rohrl's opinion even though he's working for Porsche.
11-01-2011, 03:33 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
I am amazed to see people here talking about Walter Rohrl like his opinion doesn't count just because he's working for Porsche. Maybe you don't know who Walter Rohrl is...This guy is a LEGEND in racing! Walter Rohrl raced cars for other manufactures besides Porsche,like Opel,Lancia,Fiat or Audi. Actually his opinion is probably the most important one if you're looking at a 991 as your future Porsche,from the perspective of PURE fun driving,racing abilities etc. If I want opinions about Back up camera,Bluetooth, Navigation and all the other crap that mean 0 for a car like this,then I'll wait for different opinions.
And by the way,over time most Auto magazines,test drivers,motor shows that tested Porsches have gotten much better performance numbers that Porsche actually stated. That alone makes me trust Walter Rohrl's opinion even though he's working for Porsche.
And by the way,over time most Auto magazines,test drivers,motor shows that tested Porsches have gotten much better performance numbers that Porsche actually stated. That alone makes me trust Walter Rohrl's opinion even though he's working for Porsche.
Nuff said!
11-01-2011, 04:05 PM
#20
Race Director
Panorama magazine December 2009, pages 18-20. Rohrl tells how he complained about the steering wheel PDK buttons saying that, "To go fast, it's the wrong way". Rohrl went to then CEO Wiedeking and insisted that paddle shifters were needed, at the very least, as an option. Although Wiedeking had been opposed to the idea previously, he finally accepted Rohrl's suggestion and the decision was made to offer them. Rohrl was willing to step up to the head of the company and let him know something wasn't right about the car, or at least could be improved. In the same article he complains about the earlier versions of the C4 having too much understeer when making high speed corrections. If you knew anything about Rohrl, you would realize he is not the type of man to compromise his principles for a paycheck.
Last edited by Mike in CA; 11-01-2011 at 10:45 PM.
11-03-2011, 09:57 AM
#21
Rennlist Member
You're missing the point. That Roehrl is paid by Porsche AND that he is being honest in his positive comments on the car are not necessarily inconsistent. Your assumption is that because Roerhl is involved in the project, that this disqualifies him from any semblance of objectivity. To the contrary, it may be that he knows more about the 991 than anyone and is best qualified to judge it's attributes.
If, for example, you could have asked Steve Jobs about the iPad before it's release, or Luca di Montezemolo about the Ferrari F458, I think they would have told you they were going to be great designs. As it turns out, they were. But based on your assumptions, both were paid in conjunction with those products, so their opinions would not have been of interest.
It's fine to say that you also want to get feedback from someone outside Porsche on the 991, although good luck finding an opinion from anyone who is completely unbiased. You will rarely find a completely objective observer of anything; almost everyone has a point of view or an axe to grind. I just object to dismissing as "completly biased", on spec, the views of someone reputable like Roehrl, who has been spot on in their evaluations so many times in the past.
Now let's see those unbiased "real reviews"!
If, for example, you could have asked Steve Jobs about the iPad before it's release, or Luca di Montezemolo about the Ferrari F458, I think they would have told you they were going to be great designs. As it turns out, they were. But based on your assumptions, both were paid in conjunction with those products, so their opinions would not have been of interest.
It's fine to say that you also want to get feedback from someone outside Porsche on the 991, although good luck finding an opinion from anyone who is completely unbiased. You will rarely find a completely objective observer of anything; almost everyone has a point of view or an axe to grind. I just object to dismissing as "completly biased", on spec, the views of someone reputable like Roehrl, who has been spot on in their evaluations so many times in the past.
Now let's see those unbiased "real reviews"!
Yes, everyone has a bias. Professional reviewers of cars all have a bias of some kind or another- but rarely are they paid by the company whose product they are reviewing.
My point is that Walter's quote is so biased as to come off as phoney and ironically funny. Clearly you don't see it the same way - the humor that is.
Yes, let's see the reviews from others not paid by Porsche!
11-03-2011, 01:10 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Yes, anyone involved in the creative process of anything cannot be impartial.
Yes, everyone has a bias. Professional reviewers of cars all have a bias of some kind or another- but rarely are they paid by the company whose product they are reviewing.
My point is that Walter's quote is so biased as to come off as phoney and ironically funny. Clearly you don't see it the same way - the humor that is.
Yes, let's see the reviews from others not paid by Porsche!
Yes, everyone has a bias. Professional reviewers of cars all have a bias of some kind or another- but rarely are they paid by the company whose product they are reviewing.
My point is that Walter's quote is so biased as to come off as phoney and ironically funny. Clearly you don't see it the same way - the humor that is.
Yes, let's see the reviews from others not paid by Porsche!
11-03-2011, 01:13 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Panorama magazine December 2009, pages 18-20. Rohrl tells how he complained about the steering wheel PDK buttons saying that, "To go fast, it's the wrong way". Rohrl went to then CEO Wiedeking and insisted that paddle shifters were needed, at the very least, as an option. Although Wiedeking had been opposed to the idea previously, he finally accepted Rohrl's suggestion and the decision was made to offer them. Rohrl was willing to step up to the head of the company and let him know something wasn't right about the car, or at least could be improved. In the same article he complains about the earlier versions of the C4 having too much understeer when making high speed corrections. If you knew anything about Rohrl, you would realize he is not the type of man to compromise his principles for a paycheck.
11-22-2011, 06:51 AM
#24
I don't think anyone here thinks that Walter is outright lying with his support for Porsche but he is a paid representative. That simply means he's going to pump the positive aspects of the car and gloss over the negatives. If you read everything he says about the cars -- that has been exactly the case...If he points out a problem - it's always after it's been fixed
The Porsche 'guys' at the IAA told me that the electric steering was "even better" than the hydraulic. Do I think they were lying? No. Do I think they're being accurate? No. The Porsche of 2012 is not the Porsche of yesteryear and by all accounts they will do whatever they can to take in a larger profit.
14 seconds faster on the ring doesn't impress me if you've taken out most of the fun of driving the ring in the first place...
The Porsche 'guys' at the IAA told me that the electric steering was "even better" than the hydraulic. Do I think they were lying? No. Do I think they're being accurate? No. The Porsche of 2012 is not the Porsche of yesteryear and by all accounts they will do whatever they can to take in a larger profit.
14 seconds faster on the ring doesn't impress me if you've taken out most of the fun of driving the ring in the first place...
11-22-2011, 01:04 PM
#25
Intermediate
Join Date: May 2008
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Short video and driving impressions from Chris Harris of EVO magazine. The guy is a real Porsche enthusiast, he has just bought GT3 RS 4.0, take look at the link below:
http://community.evo.co.uk/users/Mon...oughtsvid-clip
http://community.evo.co.uk/users/Mon...oughtsvid-clip
