gwier001

I measured the wheelbases again in the picture in the original post (OP). I measure the 991 wheelbase in the image as exactly 3" longer than the 997.

However, according to http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car...nfo-auto_shows the wheelbase is actually 3.9" longer. Not sure what happened with the length.

In any case, you are correct, these comparo images are not quite right!

yemenmocha

I didn't want to go that far but I too had suspicion about the alleged pictures done to scale claim.

Quadcammer

You and I don't agree on much, but you hit the nail on the head here. Every generation of new 911 has brought about cries of "what have they done" from owners of the earlier cars.

Power steering???? In a 911...what a travesty
Electric windows and air conditioning????? what is this, a luxury car?
No more torsion bars?????? Might as well be a minivan

etc, etc.

Imho, the classic 911 ended with the introduction of the 964.


The 997 is not luxurious? Really? Leather seats, leather dash, leather door panels, leather covered air vents, leather covered navigation console, alcantara headliner, heated seats, effective climate control, gazillion watt stereo, etc. While its not a maybach, its pretty luxurious, especially with all the dress up options porsche offers.

Quadcammer

dammit, i should have read the whole thread before responding because I basically just repeated what you said.

Waxer

Well, we can agree to disagree.

Don't get me wrong. I think the 991 is very nice and it will likely grow on many including me.

I believe it is more than just 2" longer. Closer to three. It is lower and wider. Not that this is bad in and of itself. The car just looks lower and sleeker.

And...no I wouldn't say 911's historically were/are "sleek". You can point to a picture from a particular angle like your Avatar which accentuates a particular characteristic but ...no 911's were never "sleek" in the same category as Ferraris, Corvettes, Lambos, Maseratis etc...

While the 911 has grown in size since the 1960s again they have always stayed in proportion to the original characteristic shape which was NEVER low and sleek. 911's always , at least to me looked almost as tall as they were long. They were that burly chested aggressive distant cousin to the VW. That was their charm.

The 911's for many years offered leather interior and the latest performance technology. The fact that a car has leather interior does not propel it into a luxury automobile. The fact that it offers the latest performance technology does not itself make it a luxury car nor all the other options you listed.

For me its the noticeable growth in size both inside and out, the lower and sleeker appearance, the larger rear seats and the Panamera interior.

I may totally change my mind and feel differently when I see it in person. But for now I think the car has become closer to the Caddy CTSV, Jag, Aston and other performance luxury offerings and stepped away from its roots into the sleek luxury GT car. I think its where Porsche is going. I think its where they will find a larger pool of buyers then just pure performance sports car enthusiasts.

Where is the line separating performance sports cars from performance luxury 2+2 GTs? I know where that line is for me and I think the 991 crossed over. Your line is obviously not drawn where mine is.

Clearly the 991 is the latest 911. Is it the greatest? Depends on what you consider as important characteristics. For me it may be the 997 Carrera GTS as based on my opinion may be the last of the classic 911s before they morphed into luxury true 2+2 GTs.


Again, I may fall in love with the 991 when I see it in the flesh but that Panny interior will be hard to overlook.

Mike in CA

Well that's a relief......

Let's try to minimize this agreeing with one another. Shouldn't be too hard.

slicky rick

hahaha you guys make me laugh, hahahaha

Nizer

To all the haters all I can say is I'm in...

M3EvoBR

I just want one ..

CBad308

Yahtzee!!!

JamesT7

Gentleman,

This is interesting so the thought is that the 991 is some how going to far in low wider 911.

So I decided to look up some dimensions. The original 911 from 1964, the 997 and the 991 are as follows;

Wheelbase:

1964 2211mm
997 2350 mm
991 2450 mm

Overall Length:

1964 4290 mm
997 4435 mm
991 4491 mm

Height:

1964 1300 mm
997 1300 mm
991 1290 mm

Width:

1964 1700 mm
997 1808 mm
991 1808 mm

So I am confused. The 991 is some how such a dramatic change from the 911 design. The dimensions do not show that. The difference between the 997 and the 991 is marginal. The 991 is slightly lower in height by 10 mm than the 997. In width they are the same. In wheelbase it is 100 mm longer and overall length it is 56 mm longer. So how is this such a radical change?

Yes, before someone says it the interior is different. It is no different than many current sports cars. Is it a big change yes. Does it take some getting used to yes. Is it the end of the sportiness of the 911 no at all.

Waxer, the changes in pictures seem big but not really. The 991 is not close to the Caddy. The Aston Vantage may be specially as the 911 was the target car Aston was going after. A Jag no.

Mike, I agree with you. The changes are rather minor. No matter what we all pick at to everyone else it is still a 911. It is going to perform well and still be lots of fun to drive. As for the interior give it a chance we all might end up really liking it.

Cheers,

Waxer

I do like it. In fact I hope I like it more in person. It's just based on what I see right now it has crossed over to the low and sleek luxury performance genre'.

I'd be interested to see a comparison of dimensions from the 70s thru the 997s.

JamesT7

Okay so I checked what a 1970 911 dimensions are. Here you go.

wheelbase 2273 mm / 89.5 in
length 4163 mm / 163.9 in
width 1610 mm / 63.4 in
height 1321 mm / 52.0 in

In 1980 this is what it is.

Wheelbase 2271 mm 89.4 in
Length 4290 mm 168.9 in
Width 1650 mm 65 in
Height 1340 mm

The 964 chassis

Wheelbase: 89.4 in (2,270 mm)
Overall Length: 168.3 in (4,270 mm)
Width 65.0 in (1,650 mm)
Height: 52.0 in (1,320 mm)

The 993

Wheelbase 2272 mm 89.4 in
Length 4245 mm 167.1 in
Width 1735 mm 68.3 in
Height 1300 mm 51.2 in

The 996

Wheelbase 2350 mm 92.5 in
Length 4430 mm 174.4 in
Width 1770 mm 69.7 in
Height 1305 mm 51.4 in


Well, Waxer I think some of what you are seeing or getting from the pictures that have just been released is difficult to really tell. One reason is in several side shots specially the silver 991 the rims and tires are larger and give it that sense of lower flatter and may be not as tall. 10 mm is nothing so if the 997 doesn't seem that low than it is possible the 991 will not be that low looking when viewed in person.

Personally now that Porsche has released pictures and info I am pleased with what they have done and I think it moves the game up on the competitors that the 911 can stand against the changes and is evolving very well. As I said before I am all in.

Cheers,

Mike in CA

Thanks for posting the data, James. So this is interesting. The height of the 997.2 Carrera S is 1300mm. That means that the height of my 997.2 Carrera S with SPASM, which is 10mm lower than the standard S suspension, is only 1290mm. That's exactly the same as the 991! OMG. My Carrera S is too low and sleek and no longer classic!!!

USMC_DS1

hmmm... I just bought my 997.1 earlier this year. I hope no one likes the 991 so my classic Porsche will be that much more valuable. Hahaha... evil laugh...

Seriously... I watched horrified over the years as my beloved M3 piled on the pounds after the e36 model... every time I test drove a new M3 model(e46 and finally the e56) it seemed to just get longer, larger, more bloated, more gizmos, etc. So I kept my sporty 1998 e36 m3 for 10+ yrs modifying it along the way... trying to extend it's life with me: lowering suspension, steering/control arms upgrades, supercharger, lighter wheels/tires, etc… waiting/hoping faithfully for BMW to come back to their roots and make a light one. Who was I kidding… the lure of high profits, mass production, and mass marketing has driven far greater companies towards mediocrity. Even their diminutive 1 series is now tipping the scales at 3,700 lbs. Add 50 lbs and you have a Camero with more room. So I finally took the plunge and got the Porsche... it was light and sporty... reminded me of the old e36 m3 only faster, more maneuverable, yet less convenient in that quintessential sports car way that reminds you to smile every time the engine turns over. Darn, there’s that small frunk again… no room for this or that, geeze it too hard to drive stick she says… my wife hasn’t touch her since I brought it home, what’s not to love about it.

So is Porsche taking a similar path to BMW and others. Probably… aren’t they now owned by one of the automotive masters of mass marketing – VW. So will they transform the 911 into a large GT over time – I think we’re all watching it in motion. Will they appeal to the masses – absolutely.

I’m absolutely happy with the 997.1. Like a time machine it draws me back to an automotive Zen point when these cars were still light enough, sporty enough, German enough, yet with enough plush to be a DD and edge for the track. Re the 991, no thanks Porsche… I’ll be keeping this one for the next 10 yrs as I wait for you to come back to your senses and my personal automotive Zen point. You never know… I can always dream or just switch to another brand in 10 yrs. For now Porsche has my loyalty but it’s with the 997.