Xpost: C&D drives the 991
#91
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wishing I Was At The Track
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If this car is 66 lbs to 88 lbs lighter than the 997.2 Carrera, the weight savings in the 991 GT3 are going to be even better.
The 997.2 and 991 Carrera share the 9A1. The 997.2 GT3 uses the bulky and heavy Metzger and the G50 derived heavy tranny. Back in 1999 the Mk1 GT3 was 80 lbs heavier than a 996 C2 with sunroof delete. A new 991 GT3 with 9A1 and a smaller tranny will likely save over 100 lbs (using the Carrera weight savings as a guideline).
Better handling, lower weight, longer wheelbase, better weight distribution, and very likely a dry sump version of a modern engine (9A1). When the Motorsports team put their hands on the 9A1 and work the internals to make it spin 8,600 rpm, the 3.8 will easily produce 450 Hp for a GT3 and 465 Hp for a GT3 RS.
The 997.2 and 991 Carrera share the 9A1. The 997.2 GT3 uses the bulky and heavy Metzger and the G50 derived heavy tranny. Back in 1999 the Mk1 GT3 was 80 lbs heavier than a 996 C2 with sunroof delete. A new 991 GT3 with 9A1 and a smaller tranny will likely save over 100 lbs (using the Carrera weight savings as a guideline).
Better handling, lower weight, longer wheelbase, better weight distribution, and very likely a dry sump version of a modern engine (9A1). When the Motorsports team put their hands on the 9A1 and work the internals to make it spin 8,600 rpm, the 3.8 will easily produce 450 Hp for a GT3 and 465 Hp for a GT3 RS.
#92
I think the changes are going to be a good thing including the interior. In my opinion, the Panamera has the best interior of any car currently made, and if the new 911 will have nearly the same, I'd be happy. Also, I am a fan of the 911 more for its design rather than its rear engine configuration. So, if handling and performance will be made better by shifting the rear weight forward, I see it only as a positive. What worries me most is getting rid of the hydraulic steering. I am looking foward to Frankfurt.
#93
Bigger is a bit subjective. The car will be lighter and lower, the wheel base longer, but the overall length because of less overhang, not so much. To me lighter is.....less big.
As far as handling, more Cayman like is not a bad thing. Sounds like my new Cayman R will be a good training platform for the next GT3. I'm betting the new GT3 will come in at around 480 hp in a 4.0 liter engine with better overall performance. Nothing wrong with that. I plan on being one of the first in line.
As far as handling, more Cayman like is not a bad thing. Sounds like my new Cayman R will be a good training platform for the next GT3. I'm betting the new GT3 will come in at around 480 hp in a 4.0 liter engine with better overall performance. Nothing wrong with that. I plan on being one of the first in line.
#95
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The electric steering pump should be a nice improvement (Yes, another one).
The current GT3 has a power steering pump behind the rear axle carrying heavy oil in a reservoir, and running heavy oil lines all the way from the back to the front of the car to reach the steering rack. An electric steering pump could be located in the front area of the car, helping to reduce weight and improving weight distribution.
Whether the power steering pump is moved by electricity or by an accessories belt, it should not make a difference on the steering feel.
Removing the parasitic load of a traditional power steering pump will release more power to the wheels as well.
The current GT3 has a power steering pump behind the rear axle carrying heavy oil in a reservoir, and running heavy oil lines all the way from the back to the front of the car to reach the steering rack. An electric steering pump could be located in the front area of the car, helping to reduce weight and improving weight distribution.
Whether the power steering pump is moved by electricity or by an accessories belt, it should not make a difference on the steering feel.
Removing the parasitic load of a traditional power steering pump will release more power to the wheels as well.
#96
I think the changes are going to be a good thing including the interior. In my opinion, the Panamera has the best interior of any car currently made, and if the new 911 will have nearly the same, I'd be happy. Also, I am a fan of the 911 more for its design rather than its rear engine configuration. So, if handling and performance will be made better by shifting the rear weight forward, I see it only as a positive. What worries me most is getting rid of the hydraulic steering. I am looking foward to Frankfurt.
Porsche (and VW) need to learn that focus groups and accountants have no place in the business of building great sports cars.
Let the focus groups choose the second row design for easy child seat buckle up or the price point of the executive express transport so that it's fittingly impressive to their peer group, but not at a lease they can't payment they can't scratch together every month.
Cayenne buyers are just getting past the ladder-frame truck handling and gold medallion grill on the hairy chest of an Escalade -- I concede that Porsche needs to appeal to their, let's call it "tastes." And the Panamera buyer is just discovering they need to give up their clip-on tie and get out of their M5 lease -- but they still want the status symbol and the instant gratification of driving as being mostly a matter of mashing the throttle to the floor.
#97
Burning Brakes
I wonder how many lbs the new interior added.
However, I do like the idea of using more Alu in the chassis and body. If they saved more lbs in doing that I wonder how lighter would the new GT3 be with hopefully a 'less' interior.
However, I do like the idea of using more Alu in the chassis and body. If they saved more lbs in doing that I wonder how lighter would the new GT3 be with hopefully a 'less' interior.
#98
The electric steering pump should be a nice improvement (Yes, another one).
The current GT3 has a power steering pump behind the rear axle carrying heavy oil in a reservoir, and running heavy oil lines all the way from the back to the front of the car to reach the steering rack. An electric steering pump could be located in the front area of the car, helping to reduce weight and improving weight distribution.
Whether the power steering pump is moved by electricity or by an accessories belt, it should not make a difference on the steering feel.
Removing the parasitic load of a traditional power steering pump will release more power to the wheels as well.
The current GT3 has a power steering pump behind the rear axle carrying heavy oil in a reservoir, and running heavy oil lines all the way from the back to the front of the car to reach the steering rack. An electric steering pump could be located in the front area of the car, helping to reduce weight and improving weight distribution.
Whether the power steering pump is moved by electricity or by an accessories belt, it should not make a difference on the steering feel.
Removing the parasitic load of a traditional power steering pump will release more power to the wheels as well.
I can only hope the suspension (in terms of lightweight spring designs) is carried over from the RS 4.0 and the dampers (PASM) are entirely discarded in favor of lighter, faster, low-stiction, conventional dampers. If they need to have the "damptronic" magnetic fluids so they have the word "comfort" (focus groups ...) to sell as need be, then I hope they can come up with the business case to have a Carrera system and a separate GT system -- and the same with the steering -- (lighter, faster ratio, less assist, more feel.)
Interesting questions about the engineering arise when considering the drivetrain -- with the new transaxle comes the opportunity to make the decision to implement a "real" diff (preload) or hold the party line (nonsense about the current LSD being anything but useless) or (heaven forfend) an electronic diff like Ferrari and (worse) McLaren trying to make the car idiot proof at the cost of also making it professional-proof, too.