991.1 VS 991.2
06-23-2024, 11:08 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
If you want, PM me for the tech guide. A lot of small things too like improved cylinder gas nitrating (bore score), repositioning the plugs. This was a big change.
06-23-2024, 02:26 PM
#17
WoW, that’s quite a bias endorsement for a 991.1. I think I’m going to sell my faster, more technically advanced, better looking 991.2 and get one ha ha. But seriously the Porsche Turbo has always been the pinnacle of the Porsche lineup. Now that Porsche is turbocharging all its 911’s it’s a bad thing?
Last edited by 911Ninja; 06-23-2024 at 02:27 PM.
06-23-2024, 02:50 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Conemasher thanks for the extensive comparison. This was super helpful. Coming from the 997 world this same debate exists from .1 to .2. However when they changed from the M97 engine in the .1 to the NA1 in the .2 the debate was really over. It deleted the dreaded IMS shaft and bearing along with having 40% less moving parts and DFI technology. In the 991 world it seems things are much different with two pretty bulletproof platforms and the obvious change from NA to turbo engines. I feel like I really can't go wrong and it almost comes down to the vaunted NA flat 6 sound and simplicity with a lower price point VS some upgraded styling/technology and a turbo platform that can be tuned. I am never selling my 997.2 manual but think whichever 991 I end up with will be a perfect complement being so different and enjoying the more advanced 991 some days and the more analog 997 on others. As a side note I also think the 991 will make a much better touring car for longer trips.
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street rod (06-23-2024)
06-23-2024, 03:09 PM
#20
Drifting
Thread Starter
That is also a good point Jim. The advantage I have is I am not under the gun to sell or buy anything and I enjoy the hunt. It's a great resource to have guys like you all to lean on for this advice. I watched the PCA video that Rich C4S recommended, and it was 1 hour of great information. Feel like I am getting a much better handle on this platform now and can make a good decision.
CubsFan you are right on the money and my gut feeling and what puts a smile on my face will ultimately hold sway.
CubsFan you are right on the money and my gut feeling and what puts a smile on my face will ultimately hold sway.
Last edited by street rod; 06-23-2024 at 03:10 PM.
06-23-2024, 04:26 PM
#21
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I would add that Porsche really sorted out the EPAS with 991.2. The .2 cars have improved steering feel as a result.
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street rod (06-24-2024)
06-23-2024, 05:09 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
I never would have considered a Porsche Turbo in the past due to to its reputation for "Turbo Lag". With the advent of the 991.2 series those days are in the past. I now have a 2017 991.2 GTS, and am 100% sold on this model to the exclusion of previous 911 N/A Turbo model, as well as the 992...too modern for me. Being 100% candid, it has taken me a while to get used to the center lock wheels. But now I have a RennTorq device I share with a buddy...changing out a wheel(s) is no big deal now that I have the tools.
How did the enclosed article come about? I penned it a few years ago and intended to send it to PCA San Diego, and/or Porsche Owners Club (SoCal), but it was simply too long. I didn't have the heart to truncate it. In its current iteration, it may need an edit....Besides, I wrote the article for me as I was in the process of gathering information looking to upgrade my 991.1 S to a 991.2 (BASE, "S" OR GTS) (I had been denied a 991.1 with SportChrono due to a 2021 temporary PCNA Stop Sell order for 991.1 cars equipped with SportChrono). It seems that I was infatuated with the 0 - 60 MPH times I was seeing with 991.2 models equipped with 7 speed PDK automatic and SportChrono.
2 1/2 years ago (December 2021) a 2017 991.2 GTS came up for sale at the local BMW dealer. I had had a 2015 Cayman GTS a few years back and realized that GTS models are lavishly equipped with options. Within minutes of seeing their ad, I was down to the dealership to buy the 991.2 GTS. I had to feign indifference to help my negotiating position. It sort of worked as I got top trade in value for my 991.1 S...yes, the water pump failed on the 991.2 GTS with a month of ownership, but it was replaced under warranty, and that has been the only thing I have had to do on the car.
It is a PDK automatic with Sport Chrono, installed a center radiator, Pagid brake pads***, Motul brake fluid, acceleration of 0 - 60 in 3.5 seconds is no exaggeration. The exhaust note in Sport mode is intoxicating to me, and the cars performance in Sport + cannot be described, it needs to be experienced. The wide-body look remains every so enticing to me...and the sun-roof delete gives a "business-like (Track ready)" appearance.The center flock wheels look very business like. The car has been to Willow Springs Raceway one time, aka (The Fastest Road in the West). Entering the 1/2 mile front straight coming off Turn 9 at 95 MPH, the car reached 150 MPH before I needed to brake for Turn 0ne (1). It was the result of the overall technical superiority of the car that I was able to reach this speed. The "Monster" brakes bleed the speed of predictably.
***Not intending to track the car, I installed stock 991.2 GTS pads. Once was enough for me.
Initially, I was skeptical of the 991.2's performance across the model line. After all, I had been a N/A guy for my past 25 years of Porsche ownership, starting with a 1973 911, and to include a 2004 GTS, and a race prepped 1997 993 short gears and racing suspension. One test drive of the 991.2 GTS, confirmed to me, that twin-turbo engineering was superior to 3.8 and 4.0 N/A 911 cars. IMHO, the 991.2 delivers outrageous HP and torque, and is a great value for the money. What would I buy (You ask?) if I were shopping for a 991.2 car?
I would buy a 991.2 Base. If I wasn't going to track the car, I would leave it alone. 370 HP is enough for most situations. If some incremental HP is desired, install a "Tune", about $1,200. However, if I were intending to track the car, in addition too an electronic tune, I would do the following mods
- Install (Suncoast Porsche) the optional center radiator kit. I installed the kit on my 991.1 and my present 991.2 GTS,
- Upgrade the 991.2 Base turbos to those delivered on the 991.2 GTS, of after market that are even bigger,
- Tune the engine to accommodate the new turbos,
- Upgrade the intercoolers too, to match the new turbos, aftermarket has these with what would seem to be superior to stock 991.2 GTS intercoolers,
- Install the brake calipers from a 991.2 S,
- Install GiroDisc rotors front and rear. These are 2 piece rotors, run cooler than stock and about 5 Lbs. lighter per corner compared to stock.
06-23-2024, 06:39 PM
#23
Drifting
Thread Starter
Well written Martin and thanks for the insight. Food for thought. Coincidentally I have also been checking out the 718 GTS. Never heard of the Premier Warranty but may take a look. I have a Fidelity Platinum on my 997.2 . Needed it one time in 4 1/2 years but it came through.
06-23-2024, 07:25 PM
#24
Drive both and buy the one you enjoy. There are merits to both.
If you live for lap times, magazine drag racing, or modding the .2 is the way to go. If you want a fun albeit slightly slower experience the .1 offers a lot for less coin.
There’s a reason the GT cars are still N.A.: sound and throttle response are important to enthusiasts.
NF.
If you live for lap times, magazine drag racing, or modding the .2 is the way to go. If you want a fun albeit slightly slower experience the .1 offers a lot for less coin.
There’s a reason the GT cars are still N.A.: sound and throttle response are important to enthusiasts.
NF.
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street rod (06-24-2024)
06-23-2024, 11:16 PM
#25
5th Gear
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I have both a 991.1S and a 991.2T. Both are manual. My 991.1S has sport chrono, sport exhaust (PSE), PASM sport and 14 way seats. The 991.2T comes standard with sport chrono, sport exhaust and PASM sport. My 991.2T has 18 way seats. Here's a back to back comparison:
I can answer any questions you may have. Good luck!
- Power: .1 is way down on power below 4500 rpm compared to the .2. The .2 has more low end torque whereas the .1 you won't feel the power until you hit higher rpm. At higher rpms, both cars pull hard.
- Sound: Both cars with PSE. The .1 sounds better than .2 but the .2 still sounds good with all the turbo sounds. The .1 has very slight drone around 2500-3000 rpm when cruising on the highway with PSE enabled whereas the .2 didn't have any such drone. From inside the cabin, the .1 is slightly louder.
- Looks: I prefer the rear of the .1 and the front of the .2 with the updated DRL.
- Seats: This has nothing to do with .1 vs .2 comparison but I wanted to throw this in here. I prefer the 14 way seats. The 18 way seats feel pinched around the shoulder area. Both have good bolstering and support for autocross/track driving.
- PDK: I've never driven a 911 with PDK so I can't help here. Maybe someone else can chime in with any differences between .1 and .2 PDK.
- Manual Transmission/Clutch: The clutch is noticeable stiffer on .1 than .2. However, the shifter feels lighter and easier to get into gears in the .1 strangely. I'm smoother shifting the .1 which leads to the next point.
- Throttle Response: Considerably better in the .1 being naturally aspirated. When down shifting and rev matching in the .1, I kept over revving because I was used to the muted throttle response of the .2. With the .2, there's a slight delay when you press on the gas pedal before the car reacts and how much throttle is applied. When downshifting in the .2, I have to really stab the throttle to rev match.
- Tech: My .1 doesn't have parking sensors, backup camera, blind spot sensors, Apple CarPlay or Porsche wifi Gateway that the .2 has. The Porsche wifi lets you connect to the car to pull telemetry data for racing. .1 must be optioned with park assist. There are aftermarket alternatives to get the backup camera and CarPlay.
- Suspension: I had both cars setup with the same tires and same alignment for autocross (pitiful -1.5 camber in the front and 0 toe). Even with the age gap they felt identical on the street and at the limit during autocross, which is to say they both felt fantastic.
- Other considerations for Autocross/Track:
- Traction Control: Can't be fully disabled on the non-GT .2 cars I believe. In really tight turns and hair pins, I would mash the gas pedal to see if I could throttle steer and get the rear to rotate but no throttle would be applied. Only after unwinding the wheel would it apply throttle. This was with traction control fully disabled. On the .1, I don't believe any such limitation exists. I can roll onto the throttle early and there's no power cut. During one PCA autocross event that had really tight turns, I drove mostly in first gear in the .2. As I was exiting corners, I rolled onto the gas pedal and kept it there but the car would only apply throttle as the steering wheel was opened up. Then when entering another tight corner and cranking the steering wheel it would kill throttle even with the gas still applied. This gave me a strange rubber banding sensation.
- Launching: Way easier to launch on the .2 with the soft limiter at idle and the smoother clutch engagement. I don't think the .1 has a soft limiter and for some reason I had a hard time getting consistent good launches because the clutch didn't engage progressively and felt more abrupt.
- Driving Dynamics: .1 feels more natural given the lack of turbos, better throttle response and no nannies interfering.
- Street Driving: .2 has more power and tech and is newer. This would be my choice for daily driving. At partial throttle, both cars feel quick. If you're hammering it in low rpm's, then you'll want the power of the .2. Otherwise, the .1 felt just as quick when accelerating from a stop.
- Autocross/Track/Spirited Driving: Both are fun but the .1 edges out the .2 for me (refer to points above).
- Reliability: I bought both cars as CPO. No major issues with either car. I need to take the .2 in for broken engine deck lid supports and intermittent issues with the driver window switch. The .1 has peeling leather dash. These are all covered under CPO warranty.
I can answer any questions you may have. Good luck!
06-24-2024, 12:05 AM
#26
991/.2 T or higher models get rear steering, the same system on the 991/3 GT3/ Turbo models... just to add another performance enhancer.
I have owned both, bought a 991.2 S sport package over 991.1 GTS because it was that MUCH a faster car.. and better tech.
the 991.1 GTS does sound insane though...
I have owned both, bought a 991.2 S sport package over 991.1 GTS because it was that MUCH a faster car.. and better tech.
the 991.1 GTS does sound insane though...
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street rod (06-24-2024)
06-24-2024, 06:37 PM
#27
Drifting
Thread Starter
Snake eyes does the Sport Package include a power kit?
06-24-2024, 07:34 PM
#28
Racer
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street rod (06-24-2024)
06-24-2024, 07:52 PM
#29
Drifting
Thread Starter
Nice option.
06-29-2024, 02:30 AM
#30
991/.2 T or higher models get rear steering, the same system on the 991/3 GT3/ Turbo models... just to add another performance enhancer.
I have owned both, bought a 991.2 S sport package over 991.1 GTS because it was that MUCH a faster car.. and better tech.
the 991.1 GTS does sound insane though...
I have owned both, bought a 991.2 S sport package over 991.1 GTS because it was that MUCH a faster car.. and better tech.
the 991.1 GTS does sound insane though...
Strongly recommended as an option for folks struggling between the two.
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