Hey guys.. need some help here.

THE CAR - 991.2 Carerra 4S w/ SPASM, PDCC, RWS

WHAT I WANTED - a slightly lowered stance, like a factory GT3 stance. Not slammed, some but minimal wheel gap all around.

WHAT I BOUGHT - Techart Springs

THE RESULT - Height is okay. Maybe .25 lower than I wanted but not bad.

The ride, I am not sure I like. It feels different than stock SPASM. Like the "edge" has been taken off. A bit more comfy. But a bit less "Porsche"? A bit more floaty / mushy? But still flat? That's the best I can put it.

This is a second car, wondering if I made it "less fun & aggressive" than stock!? However, I DO NOT track it.

THE SOLUTION - ???

Coilovers?
Different Springs?
DSC Controller?
Go back to stock and stop F'ing with it?
Suck it up and leave the techart?

Need some help from someone who knows what they're doing here.. I just wanted to make my 4S a mini-me GT3 lol

 

I don't know much but I'm sure someone that does is going to come in here and recommend coilovers with DSC.

 

Cannot help much except to confirm your TechArt comments. I had a 991.1 with TechArts and when I drove a stock SPASM 991.2 4s I was shocked how much better it felt than the TechArt setup. I tried to get the spring rates from them; they would not provide them. I do have a Bilstein SPASM compatible set of in the garage for my 991.2 4S but do not have them on yet.

I do have the DSC on my GT3 and it is amazing but in a different way than what you are looking for imo. It takes the edge off the stiffer setup in the GT3 on crap roads but actually improves the setup in sport mode. The point is I don't think that will help with what I think are the softer TechArts.

Good luck.

 

Over the years I have had every suspension setup you can think of on various cars. Starting with lowering springs, custom coil overs made on the side by a vehicle manufacturers lead damper engineer, factory HAS(height adjustable springs) springs, Bilstein B16ds, MCS 3-ways, and now the Tractive Road/track setup from TPC Racing.

That being said my latest is my favorite but you don’t NEED that to get where you want to go. As a matter of fact, @jakermc H&R springs with the DCS and is very happy with it. He’s running down GT3 at the track all day but he’s a pro driver and that should tell you that the springs should be enough. If it’s good enough for a driver of that level on the track, we mortals can make it work for us on the street.

The key point is having the right springs with acceptable rates and a good drop(.25 is not to much), but adding in the DSC allows you to better tune the stock dampers to the “secret” rates that H&R, and other lowering spring manufacturers provide. It will allow you to set the compression and rebound but also change the “valving” by changing the milliamp range and ramp of the dampers. Even the stock RS file it ships with is very good. The DSC can fix the floaty and mushy feeling, you just need better compression and rebound control. Hard to tell if you don’t know the spring rates and how they differ from stock. They sound stiffer and the dampers are lacking some rebound control but that’s just conjecture as I have zero experience with those springs.

Now you mentioned the Techart springs, those I can’t say much for as I don’t know anyone personally that runs them but maybe someone with those can chime in on the rates and what they did.

As long as you’re not on the bump stops give the DSC a try, I know a few who have done this with just springs and have been happy with the performance on the street and on the track. The rectory PASM controller leaves a bit to be desired when the stock springs are replaced and I’m sure Tom over at TPC can help you dial in a DSC for the feel you want.

 

Great post and thank you @IRunalot . I'm really thinking that my next upgrade is going to be the DSC (soon). I'm hoping that I can see/feel noticeable improvement with the out-of-the-box settings & my Eibach springs, but it's good to know that it can be tweaked if needed.

 

Great info, thank you @IRunalot .

Sounds like the next step for me would be DSC before changing anything else - and see how I feel about the ride / performance at that point.

If that does not make it to my liking - I think it's B16 coilovers or back to stock, which the DSC seems to work with & improve either way.

Just trying to avoid further costly suspension mistakes lol.

 

Looking to go down this road soon as well, very timely post as are some others recently. Options I'm considering but looking for more feedback from those that have the various setups:
1. Bilstein Damptronic coilovers. Expensive but a recent thread in relation to the 991.2 has me concerned.
2. KW HAS kit. I find the ability to adjust the ride height to my liking while utilizing the factory dampers very attractive from a cost perspective. I do have questions regarding the impact on these dampers (Will I compromise longevity? Am I asking things of the stock Sport PASM dampers that will result in a compromise with a lowered car?)
3. H&R springs. I went this route with my 97 993 in combination with Bilstein HD shocks. Although I loved the resulting look, there was a "clunk" every so often that I never could figure out. Ride was a bit "crashy" as well......not very refined on that application. A switch to PSS10s gave the desired result but this was a VERY expensive endeavor. I'd like to get it right the first time with my T.

This is when I wish Porsche continued to make a lowered "sport" suspension with fixed/passive dampers similar to what they've offered in the past. X73 and M030 come to mind.

 

Good thread and a lot to unpack here.

I can't speak to the Techart springs, but as mentioned, I am very pleased with the H&R / DSC combo on my 991.2 T. The stance looks great, handling on the street is sporting yet comfortable, and on the track it is an absolute blast to drive and capable of lap times that will make a GT3 envious. That is not to say it is perfect, it is not, but I think that is part of the fun. She is a communicative dance partner, you just have to listen to what she wants to lead effectively. For example, when pushed hard, my car will exhibit low speed understeer, but an adjustment to my driving style can negate that and lead to even quicker lap times. This give and take makes for a very engaging drive, and that's what sports cars should be about. If I am competing I want a perfect car. But on the street or an HPDE were you are driving below the limit, a car can become boring if it's over-engineered for that environment.

The next move from here, at least for my car, would be to address my lack of camber in the front. I am limited to -1.9 degrees with stock components. So control arms most likely.

Beyond this, things can get very complex. Two very important points:

1) If you are staying on street tires you will never fully get the benefit of the more advanced suspension set-ups
2) The parts are far less important than the expertise to get them set-up correctly

Adjustable heights, adjustable dampers, adjustable PASM/DSC etc. create many variables that all must work together to be effective. It takes a lot of experience from the mechanic/suspension engineer and it takes a driver who is sensitive to changes to get the set-up right. Many people makes things worse, not better. Others spend a lot of money for only marginal benefit. Few get it all dialed in and create magic. When I was competing, dialing in a new suspension it was a full day affair of private testing with my driving coach, as his ability to sense issues and make changes far exceeded my ability. And don't forget that every new track might require additional tweaks.

@IRunalot can attest to this commitment to set-up. I can't fathom how many hours he has into development at this point, he probably has more DSC files than anyone except TPC! LOL But I will say, he is getting to that magic category. I've only driven his car briefly, but one thing that stood out was the spherical bearings everywhere. Everything is just a little more immediate in his car, and this is something that drivers at all levels can feel. I'd keep that on my list of improvements to consider.

Bottom line, always work on your own driving first and make your changes within the context of how the car will really be used. And most importantly, don't go it alone. Nothing is more valuable than experience and previous knowledge gained to get it set-up correctly, regardless of the parts used.

 

Isn’t the PASM/SPASM the “sport” suspension you’re talking about though? The standard PASM is 20? mm lower than standard, and the SPASM is 25? mm lower? If you have SPASM you already have the current lowered sport suspension, or maybe I’m just not understanding what you’re looking for.

 

I've made every suspension mistake known to man trust me LOL, after 3 suspension on my F80 in 3 months I learned the hard way. For spirited street driving the DSC with the stock dampers is great, and the adjustments it affords are noticeable. If the stock RS file it ships with is not exactly what you want you can dig into it and get exactly what you want. Before I switched over to the Tractives, I ad the DSC with the stock dampers and it was good out of the box but great after some tweaks.

Springs are springs, as long as they are linear(not a fan of progressives), the rate is within the range of the dampers valving, yield proper front to rear suspension frequency ratios, and give your suspension room to operate the magic is all in the dampers.

Most after market springs from reputable companies will be fine and the DSC will give you the tools to adjust the dampers as needed.

 

For lower and more sporty the X73 is hard to beat, I had it in my previous Porsche the handling is amazing, my present car has PASM and while is not as low to the ground still looks good and the ride is very firm but pleasant, pushing the PASM buttom it gets firmer for spirited driving. Not a fan of aftermarket stuff, but that's just me. I worked for a shop years ago Performance Imported Parts a Porsche specialist ( and other brands) and in my experience they are not better than Porsche engineered OEM parts. JMO

 

Yes the SPASM is Porsche's lowered/"sport" suspension in the 991 and current 992 generation. Porsche used to offer their lowered/sport suspension without adjustable/active shocks. Simpler in my mind.

Also, as applies to the 991 ride heights are:
1. standard/non PASM baseline
2. PASM: -10mm
3. PASM sport: -20mm

 

That would be the X73 pkg, is simple no electronics consists of shocks, springs and larger sway bars, is a great package and is available just look up Suncoast or some of the other Porsche Dealers, and is a DIY install with general tools.

 

That's my original point....Porsche no longer offers this kind of package as a factory option and hasn't since the 997 days unfortunately. The simplicity of this kind of setup means not having to compensate or eliminate for the adjustable shocks if you go down the lowering route. Simple from factory equating to simplicity when replacing or modifying (I'll refrain from using the term "upgrading" as that is very subjective when it comes to modifying a 911's suspension).

 

Well my 981 GTS and my friend's 991.1 came with X73 and I know of 2 other cars ordered that way from factory go figure, I believe it was dropped with introduction of the 718s and 992 not at the end of 997, but that's a mute point since the OP is not ordering a new car he is making mods to his 992, and the X73 kit is available if thats what his needs are.. I do agree as I also don't think is an upgrade as it is subjective to ones use. My personal taste I prefer the PASM on my 911, I don't track so for me is perfect for spirited driving, not to say that the X73 is not a blast and I enjoyed it tremendously when I had it.